How to clean surface noise from a 78

[Edisonfan]

"I do know that, my Black Swan and my Black Paramounts tend to have the most ware, and scratches. Compared to Columbia and Victor."

Consider the target audience for these records when new. Probably poor people without the means to spend money on new phonograph needles supposed to be used once and discarded... Almost every early blues record that I have seen, has been overplayed with used needles or old nails, resulting in extreme wear and surface noise. Beside that fact, the records were made cheaply.

That is true Curt! All I know is that, once I started to post more black Blue’s and Jazz artists, along with photos. I have increased the viewership to my channel. Also, I have only had one person say something about the noise. Which was on my Blind Lemon Jefferson Paramount 78. Most of my viewers, tend to ignore the noise. My audio-technica turntable and the MV-90 cartridge pick up more surface noise, then my Victrola. Of course, I have been trying to protect the records. You are right about the Paramounts and Black Swans.

[Curt A]

People loved them and played them, no matter what. Who needs a needle when you've got some extra brads laying around?

[Edisonfan]

People loved them and played them, no matter what. Who needs a needle when you've got some extra brads laying around?

That is true! brads?

[gramophone-georg]

"I do know that, my Black Swan and my Black Paramounts tend to have the most ware, and scratches. Compared to Columbia and Victor."

Consider the target audience for these records when new. Probably poor people without the means to spend money on new phonograph needles supposed to be used once and discarded... Almost every early blues record that I have seen, has been overplayed with used needles or old nails, resulting in extreme wear and surface noise. Beside that fact, the records were made cheaply.

That is true Curt! All I know is that, once I started to post more black Blue’s and Jazz artists, along with photos. I have increased the viewership to my channel. Also, I have only had one person say something about the noise. Which was on my Blind Lemon Jefferson Paramount 78. Most of my viewers, tend to ignore the noise. My audio-technica turntable and the MV-90 cartridge pick up more surface noise, then my Victrola. Of course, I have been trying to protect the records. You are right about the Paramounts and Black Swans.

In my opinion, the noise is part of the true experience. Novices doctoring up the sound can be just as annoying as the "remasterings" of old favorites that were popular when I was in HS and at university. They just sound "off". Those of us old enough to remember "electronically enhanced for stereo" understand, I'm sure. I was a Beatles boy, and I had all their early records- in mono. A lot of them had feedback so bad that it sounded like Ringo was on the cymbals constantly in the background. My brain got so tuned to that that I cannot stand the new releases where it has been removed. Yes, I am not normal.

Now, that said... there ARE some folks who are really, really good at noise removal- melvind comes to mind. But not everyone can get it right. For myself I would never even attempt it.

Also- keep in mind that, no matter what you do, there will always be some pitiful whiner that doesn't like it.

[CarlosV]

Right, so a lot of my Blues and Jazz recordings have a lot of ware, which creates noise in recording for YouTube. Anyone have a suggestion for software to improve audio? I know there are a number of apps I just don’t know what to use?

Paul

Hi Paul
There are two means to reproduce the old 78s: with a vintage gramophone and with modern electronic equipment.

Reproduction with vintage gramophones: the best reproductions I've heard were made either with EMGs/Experts or with a custom-made very large exponential horn, conceived by Nimbus records. The advantage of utilizing gramophones with such large exponential horns is that the recording is filtered out of the high frequency hiss without compromising the low end of the spectrum. All gramophones act as high pass filters, cutting out the high end of the spectrum and therefore eliminating the hiss and other high frequency imperfections on the original record, but only the ones with well designed horns, like the ones I mentioned and the large re-entrants like the HMV202 allow the reproduction of the low notes down to the limits that were recorded.

Reproduction with modern gear: the main limitation of utilizing modern equipment is that it is too revealing, and hiss, rumble, clicks, pops and wear distortion will overwhelm the music if not filtered out. To do so, the most important factors to consider when playing 78s with modern gear are:

- selection of the right stylus. There was no standardization of groove dimensions, which wasn't important when the records were played with large bore steel needles, but modern diamond stylii are much smaller in diameter, so depending on how they fit within the groove, they may reach the wrong wall height of the groove, or bounce within it, producing a more or less horrible sound. Moreover, as most records have some degree of wear, if the stylus reaches a higher or lower height in the groove it may avoid the most worn level and result in a less noisy play. This is all a matter of trial and error, but for that the start point is to have at hand a set of stylii of different gauges.

- selection of a variable speed turntable: if you play records issued before 1930, you know that their speeds can vary from high 60s to high 80s rpm. This makes necessary to have variable speed turntable. Playing at the wrong speed is more critical for classical music, as you would not want Caruso to sing like a soprano, for pop music, like in most of your you tuber videos, are most of your posts this is not too annoying unless it is a vocal of a well known singer.

- utilization of noise reduction equipment: the best noise reduction equipment I heard over the years is something called CEDAR. It is not a digital app, it is actually an electronic box that is fitted in the amplification chain. Some of the people here may remember that in the 80s and 90s most of the vintage music CDs were treated with CEDAR. I think it is still in production and can be bought and added to an analog chain. Today there are digital means, lots of them, but to my ears I am still to find one that sounds acceptable, I believe the excessive digital processing has to do with it, making the music sound artificial.

[Edisonfan]

"I do know that, my Black Swan and my Black Paramounts tend to have the most ware, and scratches. Compared to Columbia and Victor."

Consider the target audience for these records when new. Probably poor people without the means to spend money on new phonograph needles supposed to be used once and discarded... Almost every early blues record that I have seen, has been overplayed with used needles or old nails, resulting in extreme wear and surface noise. Beside that fact, the records were made cheaply.

That is true Curt! All I know is that, once I started to post more black Blue’s and Jazz artists, along with photos. I have increased the viewership to my channel. Also, I have only had one person say something about the noise. Which was on my Blind Lemon Jefferson Paramount 78. Most of my viewers, tend to ignore the noise. My audio-technica turntable and the MV-90 cartridge pick up more surface noise, then my Victrola. Of course, I have been trying to protect the records. You are right about the Paramounts and Black Swans.

In my opinion, the noise is part of the true experience. Novices doctoring up the sound can be just as annoying as the "remasterings" of old favorites that were popular when I was in HS and at university. They just sound "off". Those of us old enough to remember "electronically enhanced for stereo" understand, I'm sure. I was a Beatles boy, and I had all their early records- in mono. A lot of them had feedback so bad that it sounded like Ringo was on the cymbals constantly in the background. My brain got so tuned to that that I cannot stand the new releases where it has been removed. Yes, I am not normal.

Now, that said... there ARE some folks who are really, really good at noise removal- melvind comes to mind. But not everyone can get it right. For myself I would never even attempt it.

Also- keep in mind that, no matter what you do, there will always be some pitiful whiner that doesn't like it.

Thank you Curt!

[Edisonfan]

Right, so a lot of my Blues and Jazz recordings have a lot of ware, which creates noise in recording for YouTube. Anyone have a suggestion for software to improve audio? I know there are a number of apps I just don’t know what to use?

Paul

Hi Paul
There are two means to reproduce the old 78s: with a vintage gramophone and with modern electronic equipment.

Reproduction with vintage gramophones: the best reproductions I've heard were made either with EMGs/Experts or with a custom-made very large exponential horn, conceived by Nimbus records. The advantage of utilizing gramophones with such large exponential horns is that the recording is filtered out of the high frequency hiss without compromising the low end of the spectrum. All gramophones act as high pass filters, cutting out the high end of the spectrum and therefore eliminating the hiss and other high frequency imperfections on the original record, but only the ones with well designed horns, like the ones I mentioned and the large re-entrants like the HMV202 allow the reproduction of the low notes down to the limits that were recorded.

Reproduction with modern gear: the main limitation of utilizing modern equipment is that it is too revealing, and hiss, rumble, clicks, pops and wear distortion will overwhelm the music if not filtered out. To do so, the most important factors to consider when playing 78s with modern gear are:

- selection of the right stylus. There was no standardization of groove dimensions, which wasn't important when the records were played with large bore steel needles, but modern diamond stylii are much smaller in diameter, so depending on how they fit within the groove, they may reach the wrong wall height of the groove, or bounce within it, producing a more or less horrible sound. Moreover, as most records have some degree of wear, if the stylus reaches a higher or lower height in the groove it may avoid the most worn level and result in a less noisy play. This is all a matter of trial and error, but for that the start point is to have at hand a set of stylii of different gauges.

- selection of a variable speed turntable: if you play records issued before 1930, you know that their speeds can vary from high 60s to high 80s rpm. This makes necessary to have variable speed turntable. Playing at the wrong speed is more critical for classical music, as you would not want Caruso to sing like a soprano, for pop music, like in most of your you tuber videos, are most of your posts this is not too annoying unless it is a vocal of a well known singer.

- utilization of noise reduction equipment: the best noise reduction equipment I heard over the years is something called CEDAR. It is not a digital app, it is actually an electronic box that is fitted in the amplification chain. Some of the people here may remember that in the 80s and 90s most of the vintage music CDs were treated with CEDAR. I think it is still in production and can be bought and added to an analog chain. Today there are digital means, lots of them, but to my ears I am still to find one that sounds acceptable, I believe the excessive digital processing has to do with it, making the music sound artificial.

Thank you Carlos!

[Woody]

First, clean them with WD-40 - a small squirt, then wipe with the grooves using a soft cloth, then wipe off. This will improve surface noise on worn records and improve the appearance.. NO, it won't damage them further, in case you are wondering.

I picked up a battered $2 copy of Nat King Cole’s “Nature Boy” that ground to a halt on my Victor VV-VI. (Yes, I know that record is quite late for this machine, and I was also using a loud needle.) So I switched to a soft-tone needle and tried the WD-40 trick, and it worked!

Not sure whether the needle or the WD-40 deserves more credit, but I’m happy about it either way.

So thanks for this advice!

[Edisonfan]

First, clean them with WD-40 - a small squirt, then wipe with the grooves using a soft cloth, then wipe off. This will improve surface noise on worn records and improve the appearance.. NO, it won't damage them further, in case you are wondering.

It works well on my Columbia records. Now some of my Paramounts, there is just too many scratches, due to improperly handling. Also, as you mentioned the Paramounts that featured Black Blues and Jazz artists were not of the highest quality, and were most likely played multiple, times with the same, needle. The Blind Blake Paramount that I have, is really in horrendous condition.

[Curt A]

People loved them and played them, no matter what. Who needs a needle when you've got some extra brads laying around?

That is true! brads?

Brads - small nails like you hang pictures with, but no heads...