Worried about black deposits on needles after playing.

[HMV1931]

Hey all; I have been wondering recently as I have been playing records on my HMV 102 what the black deposits on the end of my needles are. The machine has a 5A soundbox, supposed to be the pinnacle of a wind up portable, and on top of that I only use soft tone needles. So small powdery black deposits on the end of my needles is worrying me as I'm guessing that it is almost certainly shellac. I don't think the needles can be blamed as I get them from this source: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/400-SOFT-TONE-GRA ... ht_679wt_924
Any help greatly appreciated; I would hate to be guilty of ruining any 78s.

[Victrolaman]

It sounds to me that the needles could be ruining the reocrds, most of the time that black is the shellac you see. Or sometimes if the records are very dirty or worn you may get that Or is your using 1 needle to play multiple records, which i doubt you are, but of you are changing the needles after i play perneedle then you should not be getting that.
Unless the reproducer isnt on the tone arm the right way. Could be a few different things.

Try a different vendor on ebay for needles, maybe the needles are not good and are gouging your records

[HMV1931]

Thanks for your advice, I feared I would have to change my needle supply or even my reproducer. I think I shall try needles first as they might be a little cheaper than a new reproducer :L . Can anyone recommend a needle supplier that they have been using for a while and have had no problems like I am experiencing?
Many thanks

[Victrolaman]

There are a few good ones in the states here. on ebay, just type in victrola needles,one guy on there his name Wyatt, he repairs and sell parts and needles, very nice guy, i have spoken with him many times and he has good quality stuff.

I dont think you need to replace the reproducer, maybe it needs to be rebuilt, new gaskets Ect..
Sometimes if records were stored in a damp area at one point basement or cellar, the shallac will become blistered or raised and you may have experienced this to. but try new needles and see how that works, and always change the needle after 1 play

[HMV1931]

Thanks for the advice greatly appreciated.

[larryh]

I am no expert here, however its not a bit unusual to see a black sort of deposit on your finger after playing a record, especially if its not been played much in years, lots of dirt in those grooves for sure. Also I use soft tone needles in my Telefunken portable since it plays so loudly anything else would drive you out of the house. Might be fine outside but not inside. However I have always noticed that a soft needle being so thin can dig into the grooves and either slow or stop some records. Columbia records of a certain period are prone to that particularly in damp weather or conditions. They may dig some into the bottom of the groove where a wider loud or medium may ride the shoulders and get more support, at least that is my theory. So a thiner needle may be riding where most other needles don't?

[Victrolaman]

Larry good point, i agree 100% on that i never thought about it. I only use loud and med tone needles, my machines play so loud. On my orthophonic machines i use only med tone. On my Vic 6 and ealier pre 1924 machines i use the loud and medium

[Record man]

Playing a record will eventually wear it out unless you use a modern turntable and stylus. Records were never not meant to play forever. I think a little black dust is to be expected if you play a record with a steel needle. This is not to say you should not minimize the wear if possible with the lightest tone arm and best needles but I have worn out favorite records out from playing them over and over again. Edison diamond disks do not have as big a problem as the 78's and they knew this at the time. It's like playing 2 minute wax cylinders, every time you play them on an original machine you remove a little bit of the record. The technology was never perfect.

[phono10]

Playing a record will eventually wear it out unless you use a modern turntable and stylus. Records were never not meant to play forever. I think a little black dust is to be expected if you play a record with a steel needle. This is not to say you should not minimize the wear if possible with the lightest tone arm and best needles but I have worn out many favorite records over the years from playing them over and over again. Edison diamond disks do not have as big a problem as the 78's and they knew this at the time. It's like playing 2 minute wax cylinders, every time you play them on an original machine you remove a little bit of the record. There were limitations to the technology....

[beaumonde]

The tips of the various needles are of the same approx. 0.003" diamter (3 mil) -- it's the shank that differs. So a soft tone wouldn't be riding lower in the groove than a loud tone needle.

It is not uncommon to see some black dust, even after a reproducer has been rebuilt. It is probably from the abrasive shellac filler compounds that are used to wear the stylus to the groove. I wouldn't worry too much if your sound box has been restored for optimum compliance. That said, some reproducers are more compliant than others. On earlier acoustic players, tracking error may play a role as well in record wear. I get very little of the black dust when using the large inertia tonearm to my Radiola 47, as compared to any Orthophonic sound box. The former has a built-in counterweight to offset the mass of the tonearm and pick-up.