Decca 44 Portable Gramophone

[phyi9530]

Hi all,

I bought a Decca 44 Portable Gramophone from EBay. According to the Seller, the gramophone was working well. However when it arrives, I could not wind up the spring. A further check reveals that the spring has not been hooked to the shaft, that is why notwithstanding that the shaft was spinning when I turn the crank handle, I feel no resistance at all. Using screw driver, I tried to pull the spring outward/to the center a bit but still not able to get it hooked to the shaft. This is actually my first Decca so I am not familiar with its structure, may I ask:

(1) I note that the hook on the shaft is quite short (kindly see the photos and video attached). May I know if this is normal or that it has somehow been damaged during delivery that what is there is just the remaining of the hook? If so, is it possible to source any replacement?

(2) I tried to open the spring barrel lid, thinking to inspect the spring and rehook it to the shaft. Unfortunately, the lid is so tight that even if I use a screw driver to gently tap on it - it will not open. Does anyone know how to get it open? Is it possible that the previous owner may have glued the lid to the barrel?

(3) The structure of the motor where the crank handle is inserted seems to be very wobbly and "protruding" outward (see the red arrow in the photo enclosed). Is it in the correct position or it should be sitting nearer to the motor? If so, does anyone have any idea on how to adjust it?

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Best Regards,
Yi

[JerryVan]

Thank you for the pictures! There is nothing I see that suggests a problem.

It's not entirely uncommon for the spring to become unhooked. Also, not uncommon for the inner end of the spring to break off. Removing the spring barrel lid is probably going to necessary if you can't manage to rehook the spring. Do you see a loose end of what may be a broken spring end tumbling around inside? The lid is most likely pressed on.

[Marco Gilardetti]

Agree in full, everything seems absolutely normal. The barrel lid is most probably not glued but just very tightly fitted, try tapping it off by acting through the hole from the other side. The handle attchment is intentionally wobbly in order to compensate tolerances, consider it a sort of simplified cardan joint if you wish.

[Inigo]

Yes, this motor seems very similar to some of the Thorens models, and all seems ok
If the spindle gear is fibre, treat it carefully. This is a soft material.
The spring arbour you're holding on your hand seems to have a very narrow gap, but not impossible, to fit the spring central hole. It could be widened with the help of a fine screwdriver, but I would tell not to try that unless it is absolutely necessary, because it could break the central pin.
Investigate of it can be extracted from the arbour, as usually these are inserted parts. If you can see the other end by the opposite side of the arbour you could try extracting it by using a blunt nail and a hammer.

[phyi9530]

Hi all,

Thank you so much for your replies. With your advice, I have managed to re-hook the spring onto the center shaft. It's really appreciated. Was originally worried that the shaft has somehow been broken due to long journey delivery - so I would have to know if it was in fact broken for me to be able to make claims for it.

While it's finally working, what I find it weird is that when I unwind the crank handle anti-clock wise trying to remove the handle from the motor, it will also turn the shaft backwards. I think this may be why the spring was unhooked when the seller tried to remove the handle for shipping. I read that it may be issues with the non-returning spring but I am not sure how to resolve it. Have attached a video of it. Would appreciate it if you could share your view on how to fix that.

I also attach here a photo of the identification plate on the gramophone. Do you mind to share any details of the gramophone? such as it's year of manufacture or other interesting background. Would be grateful for that!

Oh ya, I also noted that the tiny ball bearing sitting below the main shaft is missing. Will you be able to advise on its correct size to secure a replacement?

Thank you for your time.

[Inigo]

Can you see the coiled wire spring wrapped around the winding axis and attached to the motor plate with a screw?

IMG_20250110_065737.jpg (63.38 KiB) Viewed 8995 times

That is a retainer that is not working properly, just seems to have been forced out of shape. It should be tight around the winding shaft. It is a simple device (which must be also free of oil or grease) which due to the direction of the coils, when the crank is turned to wind up, the shaft tends to open the coils and the spring allows the rotation of the shaft inside. When the crank is turned the opposite, the shaft rotates in the direction of the coils, and the wire spring tends to press tight around the shaft and so it blocks the rotation and the crank is unscrewed.
You'd need to disassemble it, clean spring and shaft from oil or grease, and try to make it into shape, or replace it. Place an add in the trader section to find who can supply this part, likely from the UK. Member soundgen, from near London, may have a fresh replacement, or others if you're in other part of England or Europe.
It seems a common failure in many motors of this type, as we've seen other threads in the forum with similar problems.

[JerryVan]

What is the white stuff I see between the crank and the winding shaft? If it's some kind of thread locker, glue, etc., it needs to go. Just about any non-return spring will slip, or break, if removing the crank requires too much torque. It almost appears to have been installed backwards. These springs can be problematic and "fiddley".

If you can, show more detail of the non-return spring itself. Your video jumps around and only shows the spring action for a split second. Don't bother showing the reversing gears.

[Inigo]

The retaining spring is clearly out of shape and doesn't wrap properly tight around the winding shaft...

[JerryVan]

The retaining spring is clearly out of shape and doesn't wrap properly tight around the winding shaft...

No disagreement there, Inigo.

[phyi9530]

Hi Inigo and Jerryvan,

Thanks for your reply and pointing out that the non-return spring may be faulty. I had a more closer look at the non-return spring and noted that the screw holding it seemed a bit loose. I have screwed it tight and it seems to work better. Now at least when the spring is fully unwound, I can somehow turn the handle anti-clockwise and while it will still go reverse a bit, the handled can be loosen and removed. So the non-return spring still works despite not perfectly. I cant remove the handle when the spring is wound up, and turning the handle anti-clockwise at this point in time will be unwinding the spring. As it somehow works, and I do not have access to experienced gramophone repair expert near me, I think it's best to leave it as it is now. The wood structure/cabinet of gramophone has been badly damaged by delivery and while I had made some simple temporary repairs to hold the structure in place, the gramophone is sadly no longer portable. So I guess it is not imminent to get the non-return repair now when the gramophone will act more as table top model.

Nonetheless, I still thank you for all your advice! It has been helpful.

I don't find much information on this Decca 44 online. So if you are able to share some details, such as it's year of manufacture or other interesting background, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and regards,
Robert