How to disassemble mainspring barrel on Victor M

[jboger]

Could use some help. I've replaced mainsprings on later Victors, Columbias, Edisons, and a Talk-O-Phone, but not a Victor M.

So far, I've removed the barrels from the motor plate. At least one of the two springs is either broken or detached. Both barrels have a common arbor and a single ratchet wheel that engages with the pawl. I want to pull the arbor out--that's my issue. I expect the two barrels to separate at that point so I can then open them up and see what the culprit is.

Does the ratchet wheel need to be removed from the arbor first? Some ratchet wheels are mounted on the arbor with a pin. I don't see a pin. I do see two small holes next to the arbore, which you can see in one of the photos (I attached three).

Well, any guidance would be helpful. I will continue to examine the set-up.

John

[jboger]

If I recall, there IS a transverse pin through the arbor that keeps the ratchet wheel from rotating with the arbor.

[JerryVan]

What you show is not the ratchet wheel, it's the winding gear. Yes, it needs to be removed and the cross pin as well. The gear should be just stuck on the shaft. Pry it up gently, taking great care to not make burrs on the gear teeth. Maybe a thin putty knife of similar to get under the gear and pry upwards.

There are some steps after that as well...

[jboger]

Jerry:

Thank you. I managed to get the ratchet wheel off this morning. Once I did that, the two barrels separated very easily. I removed the lid from one of the barrels. Have a look. I think you can see the problem.

If I run into any problems, I'll post something here. My next step is to pull the one spring out and measure its parameters.

Jerry, you've been a help here and before. Thank you.

John

[JerryVan]

Jerry:

Thank you. I managed to get the ratchet wheel off this morning. Once I did that, the two barrels separated very easily. I removed the lid from one of the barrels. Have a look. I think you can see the problem.

If I run into any problems, I'll post something here. My next step is to pull the one spring out and measure its parameters.

Jerry, you've been a help here and before. Thank you.

John

John,

Thank you for your kind words. You're very welcome!

That's one fancy looking spring. Actually, there may be a chance that it can still be salvaged by carefully re-forming the end. My belief is that it came to be so distorted either by having the other break, causing this spring to spin ahead uncontrollably until went "past" and began to wrap it around backwards, or by some ham-fisted person who may twirled the turntable around backwards until the spring became "reverse wound". It will be interesting see the other spring...

[Inigo]

Maybe it was installed backwards?

[jboger]

I too have thought that. Whatever the case, it will be done correctly this time.

John

[jboger]

Well, not quite there yet. As you can see, above, I popped the lid off the barrel. That was for one barrel. The other barrel is a horse of a different color. The lid won't budge. I've hit it with my torch along with tapping around the edge. And I soaked the barrel overnight in kerosene, which softens the old lubricant. My fear is bending the lid out of flat.

I can try heating the barrel with my torch for a longer period--it's a lot of thermal mass, so maybe I didn't hit it with my torch long enough.

Or, if someone has another suggestion, I'm game. Just don't want to damage the lid.

Here are two photos so you can see what I refer to.

By the way, I can see that the spring is broken near the hub. Wish that weren't the case.

John



John

[JerryVan]

Slip a wooden dowel through the center of barrel from the geared end. Tip the dowel a bit so that it engages with the lid on the far side. Give the dowel a sharp whack, or two, or three... with a hammer and the lid should pop off.

[jboger]

Jerry:

I've tried that in combination with heating with my torch. No luck so far.

I'll keep at. It should give one of these days/weeks/months/years.

John