History of the Pathéphone ?

[Steve]

Yes, I'm reviving or should that be resuscitating a long dormant Pathé thread!

Can those of you with access to antique periodicals please tell me what vintage the "The Aida" is?

Thank you!

[CarlosV]

Can those of you with access to antique periodicals please tell me what vintage the Pathéphone "The Aida" is?

Thank you!

Steve, I never came by such name when perusing the French catalogues. With *the* in front of the name it is probably English, but I never saw any catalogue of the English Pathé.

[Steve]

Yes, Carlos, it is an English Pathé in a rather stunning bow fronted cabinet, probably from around 1912-1914, I'd hazard a guess.

If I manage to get it this week I'll post some photos here.

Thanks for your reply as always.

[drh]

...Also the numbered models did not appear until 1910. The '6' fell in the new range brought in to replace the original letter designation range (A-E). The external horn models all were given EVEN numbers ie. 2,4,6,8,10,12 whilst the internal or "Salon" range of instruments were given ODD numbers 1,3,5 and upwards. At some point in 1911 the models 14 and 16 were added but these were VERY short-lived it might appear. Then later in 1911 the Model 18 appeared that if logic followed through would have been the creme-de-le-creme of the open horn models. However it wasn't! With the 14 and 16 high end models dropped, the 18 was a considerably cheaper "expensive" model! Logic? Non!...

So I guess my Concert Model 20 would date to sometime after 1911, but probably not by much? Interesting about the even/odd nomenclature; I learned my new fun fact for the day. Belated though it be, thanks!

Incidentally, there is actually one reference work I know about the company's US products, Pathé Records and Phonographs in America, 1914-1922 by George Copeland and Ronald Dethlefson. My copy purports to be a "second edition." Unfortunately, US Pathé machines seem to be an entirely different kettle of cats from their European counterparts, and as far as I know Pathé never sold open horn machines here, so it's not terribly helpful for things like the 6 or the Concert 20 or any of their lettered brethren.

[Steve]

...Also the numbered models did not appear until 1910. The '6' fell in the new range brought in to replace the original letter designation range (A-E). The external horn models all were given EVEN numbers ie. 2,4,6,8,10,12 whilst the internal or "Salon" range of instruments were given ODD numbers 1,3,5 and upwards. At some point in 1911 the models 14 and 16 were added but these were VERY short-lived it might appear. Then later in 1911 the Model 18 appeared that if logic followed through would have been the creme-de-le-creme of the open horn models. However it wasn't! With the 14 and 16 high end models dropped, the 18 was a considerably cheaper "expensive" model! Logic? Non!...

So I guess my Concert Model 20 would date to sometime after 1911, but probably not by much? Interesting about the even/odd nomenclature; I learned my new fun fact for the day. Belated though it be, thanks!

Incidentally, there is actually one reference work I know about the company's US products, Pathé Records and Phonographs in America, 1914-1922 by George Copeland and Ronald Dethlefson. My copy purports to be a "second edition." Unfortunately, US Pathé machines seem to be an entirely different kettle of cats from their European counterparts, and as far as I know Pathé never sold open horn machines here, so it's not terribly helpful for things like the 6 or the Concert 20 or any of their lettered brethren.

I'm not sure what a "Concert Model 20" is and this is an old thread now so various side topics have been discussed to confuse things but a "Model 20" HORN gramophone is effectively a re-numbered Model 12 from after 1914/1918 with a different speed control and winding handle. The motor could indeed be different by then too.

I learnt a new Pathé fact recently, myself: the numbered range existed in 1908, 2 years before I originally thought. There is so little information about Pathé in existence that suppositions have to be made based on the odd fact we do know. I'd always thought the numbered range started in 1910 (based on a surviving catalogue) and replaced the original lettered range from 1906 but it appears they happily co-existed for a couple of years or more.

[drh]

...Also the numbered models did not appear until 1910. The '6' fell in the new range brought in to replace the original letter designation range (A-E). The external horn models all were given EVEN numbers ie. 2,4,6,8,10,12 whilst the internal or "Salon" range of instruments were given ODD numbers 1,3,5 and upwards. At some point in 1911 the models 14 and 16 were added but these were VERY short-lived it might appear. Then later in 1911 the Model 18 appeared that if logic followed through would have been the creme-de-le-creme of the open horn models. However it wasn't! With the 14 and 16 high end models dropped, the 18 was a considerably cheaper "expensive" model! Logic? Non!...

So I guess my Concert Model 20 would date to sometime after 1911, but probably not by much? Interesting about the even/odd nomenclature; I learned my new fun fact for the day. Belated though it be, thanks!

Incidentally, there is actually one reference work I know about the company's US products, Pathé Records and Phonographs in America, 1914-1922 by George Copeland and Ronald Dethlefson. My copy purports to be a "second edition." Unfortunately, US Pathé machines seem to be an entirely different kettle of cats from their European counterparts, and as far as I know Pathé never sold open horn machines here, so it's not terribly helpful for things like the 6 or the Concert 20 or any of their lettered brethren.

I'm not sure what a "Concert Model 20" is and this is an old thread now so various side topics have been discussed to confuse things but a "Model 20" HORN gramophone is effectively a re-numbered Model 12 from after 1914/1918 with a different speed control and winding handle. The motor could indeed be different by then too.

I learnt a new Pathé fact recently, myself: the numbered range existed in 1908, 2 years before I originally thought. There is so little information about Pathé in existence that suppositions have to be made based on the odd fact we do know. I'd always thought the numbered range started in 1910 (based on a surviving catalogue) and replaced the original lettered range from 1906 but it appears they happily co-existed for a couple of years or more.

Thanks for that. Here are a few photos of the Concert 20, including one of the motor (currently undergoing restoration). The horn is of German origin, not original Pathé issue.

[Inigo]

Very nice!

[Steve]

Fantastic cabinet and motor - no, I have never seen that particular model before. It has absolutely nothing in common with the French Model 20 either so maybe it is from another "foreign" Pathé range.

That horn looks suitably grand for it though - the last two thirds appropriate the original Pathé type of the period. I like it!

[Sidewinder]

This was the offer in concert size in 1910. The 200 was previously "Concert A"

[drh]

Yes, I'm reviving or should that be resuscitating a long dormant Pathé thread!

Can those of you with access to antique periodicals please tell me what vintage the Pathéphone "The Aida" is?

Thank you!

Thanks (to you and everybody else) for the kind words about my Concert 20. Now, perhaps I can offer at least something in return: while I had the Pathé in America book out, I started browsing, and I spotted this entry for the Aida. Unfortunately, the book doesn't give a date for this advertisement, but it appears amongst others from 1914-1915, so I'd guess that is the time frame at issue. At least it gives the original asking price.