Concert Phonograph

[Flvice]

I'm looking for some advice on a concert phonograph and I know I've come to the right place to ask.

I have six concert records (Columbia & Edison) which I can't play because I currently do not own a Concert Phonograph but I am ready to purchase one as soon as I can find one, in my price range, and add it to my collection.

I have seen over the course of a year looking (Ebay, Orlando Show)a wide range of prices. $2600.00 for a good looking edison that I missed. $6,000.00 for an edison at the Orlando show which sounded okay but was not that good of shape. I am currently looking at a Columbia "MacDonald" AB on ebay which is located locally for me with a starting price of 1,999.00 or a Buy now price of 2.999.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/COLUMBIA-AB-McDONAL ... 25632d5894

I like the Columbia due to the two different sized mandrels so you can play both standard & Concert records. I also only own one other Columbia.. so a little varity.

My question is... what is considered a "Fair" price for an Edison Concert and/or Columbia AB? Is the Edison superior to the Columbia or vice versa... same???

Also if anyone here has a spare concert phonograph laying around collecting dust..and may consider parting with it... I would certainly entertain an offer.

[WDC]

As a previous AB MacDonald owner I can say that this machine does its job quite well. In general there is one severe problem with concert cylinders I came by which eventually lead me to the decision to sell it.

We are all aware of the shrinking effect with celluloid cylinders. But wax cylinders do shrink too. The shrinkage is much less and therefore one usually won't even notice that with standard cylinders. However, the shrinkage of a concert cylinder is greater because of its larger size. From the wax concert cylinders that I came buy, probably 80% of them would not fit the mandrel anymore. Most of them would stick over the mandrel edge for a whole inch.

In this case you would have two possible solutions: Have a smaller mandrel custom-made for your machine or wipe the inside of a precious wax cylinder with turpentine until it will fit. None of these options would really satisfy me at all. It was a valuable experience for me but I am glad I don't have a concert phonograph anymore.

I sold my AB MacDonald about two years ago for an equivalent of $2300 which is in the good range of the Hazelcorn price guide between $1800-$2500. $3k does seem to be too high, even for a nice machine like this one. Btw. the depicted is not matching and may cause problems. Columbia would use a 15" aluminum horn which was much lighter in weight than the 14" Edison horns. And this reproduction horn is even a bit heavier. For an Edison concert I would likely not go beyond $3500, other forum members may not agree - just a personal opinion.

Now, with an Edison machine you will also have the problem of an end-gate that you cannot close unless the cylinder fits the mandrel. You should keep that in mind when making a proper machine selection.

When you have the ability to buy an AB in real life, you should always check how it plays a standard cylinder. A bad governor can be easily hidden by only playing concert cylinders which provide a much greater flywheel mass.

[Flvice]

WDC,

Thanks for the advice... Defenitely a lot to think about that I did not consider at all. Since this seller is local and I know him very well (Bought a coin op columbia from him a year ago) I will see if I can talk him down on price if it dosent sell on ebay.

I will take my concert cylinders and a regular one as well and test it for the things you mentioned.

[TinfoilPhono]

One other thing to consider: that appears to have been refinished and an incorrect replica decal applied. It's smaller than original. Compare to this:



Refinishing does devalue it somewhat.

[Flvice]

TinfoilPhono,

Thanks for the reply and the expert observation. I figured that the Columbia shown may have been refinished, but I wouldn't have known that the decal was incorrect. It still looks like a nice piece so If it dosen't sell I will contact the seller. I will definitely negotiate his asking price.

Does anyone know if repo aluminum horns are available for this machine?

[TinfoilPhono]

Yes, nice replica aluminum horns are readily available. Phonophan.com has them at $135, I'm sure the other suppliers carry them as well.

[edisonphonoworks]

I have thought about making concert blanks, and need exact dimensions for the mandrel, and thickness, leanght. Probelem I do not have a concert machine either, but I make the Aylsworth, recording compound, which is more stable than anything I have ever tried. Wondering if seems that a spiral core would be the best for removing the innder core, but it is interesting that the last Edison concerts were smooth bore!

[martinola]

Wondering if seems that a spiral core would be the best for removing the innder core, but it is interesting that the last Edison concerts were smooth bore!

I think the smooth bore was a result of patent litigation more than anything else. In Appendix V of Frow's "Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion" there is mention of the New York Phonograph company litigating the use of ribs or a spiral surface on the core of cylinders. Edison cylinders were issued with a smooth inner surface for a while. The patent it was based on was dated 1889, so it seems that Edison went back to using ribs as soon as it ran out (which would have been about 1907). I've got a few Gold Moulded cylinders that have a smooth inner surface and they all seem to be from that era. This litigation "war" ran on to have more serious repercussions in the removal of the endgates of all Edison cylinder phonographs. I hadn't thought about it applying to Concert cylinders, but since they made those up until 1907, it would make sense that those would also be smooth on the inside.

Regards,
Martin