Pathéphone "The Aida"

[epigramophone]

...... and in the rare moments one shows up, it is rapidly dismissed as a fake by experts that do not know any better.

This reminds me of the reception given to my 1922 Deccalian by some "experts" on this forum.

[Steve]

Another great and unique addition to your collection, Steve! The most surprising part is that such machine. certainly the top of the line for British Pathé, was essentially unknown to most collectors, and would remain so if you hadn't found it. There are certainly other hidden Pathé gems, mostly in the German and Russian production, and in the rare moments one shows up, it is rapidly dismissed as a fake by experts that do not know any better.

Probably the lateral adapter came with the machine, it was an accessory available to customers outside the French market, where Pathé kept the monopoly of the vertical cut records for a long time. The paper stamp on the turntable is the same as those on the French machines, and as Jamie commented, indicate that the machine was made after 1916, when Pathé changed the speed of its records from 90 rpm to 80 rpm and retired the etched-label discs. It is interesting to notice that none of the components come from the French Pathé factory, similarly to the US-made production. It seems that the British Pathé operated independently from the French, sharing only the trade name - exception made to the Elf, which is the same as the French model. The shape of the horn reminds that of a table top Belgian Pathé I have, but this one is much larger and more elaborated. In any case, congratulations for the find, it is a great looking cabinet and very well kept over these 100 years!

Thank you, Carlos, for your excellent observations and comments, as usual. That is interesting to me that it does not share any common parts with the contemporary French range of machines.

I'm wondering now if they manufactured a number of these cabinets designed for the 14" turntable but similar to HMV, didn't sell many at first and were left with empty cabinets in a factory which they then equipped with the 12" turntable instead after 1916 when the emphasis would have been on the edge start paper label records, which presumably weren't available at 20" diameter? That at least might explain the advert stating 14" turntable, when this example clearly has always been fitted with a 12"?

[CarlosV]

I'm wondering now if they manufactured a number of these cabinets designed for the 14" turntable but similar to HMV, didn't sell many at first and were left with empty cabinets in a factory which they then equipped with the 12" turntable instead after 1916 when the emphasis would have been on the edge start paper label records, which presumably weren't available at 20" diameter? That at least might explain the advert stating 14" turntable, when this example clearly has always been fitted with a 12"?

Steve, the 50 cm records were already retired by 1916, but after that time Pathé started to issue 40 cm 80 rpm paper label records, that would be contemporaries to the time when this machine was commercialized. I don't know if they issued such records in England, but it could be that they planned to make the machines with larger turntables to be able to play these records in case they were eventually sold there. It would be an easy change to replace with a smaller turntable if they decided not to issue the larger records. See the photo below comparing both sides.

[CarlosV]

This reminds me of the reception given to my 1922 Deccalian by some "experts" on this forum.

Yes, Roger, a clear example of a hasty assessment based on prejudice (must be a wine cooler) and lack of willingness to investigate for provenance. Just to mention something that was widely collectible up to the last generation, postal stamps were issued by governments and therefore are all well documented, in contrast to gramophones that were made by thousands of private manufacturers, and reference documentation is only available for some of the large manufacturers, and even such databases are riddled with holes. Your Decca demonstrates that.

[Orchorsol]

Steve, if you happen to need a spare motor for your Aida, I have one from a Tosca. Of course I can't be sure it's the correct one, but it is large and (from memory) similar in appearance to yours.

[Steve]

Having just played my first ever 20" Pathé disc on this, I'm going to try and make a video of it and upload to YouTube. It occurs to me that the size of the cabinet is determined by the largest disc size playable but that the record storage underneath also follows through with the corresponding shape. Although the sleeves would be awkward to slide in, the shelves will amply store many 20" discs.