Adding a long play mechanism to a Diamond Disc phonograph

[jamiegramo]

I added (or, more properly, had added) an LP gear set to my C-250. It works fine, and over time I've acquired at least passable copies of nearly all the LP records. Note that unless viewed and, preferably, actually played in person, an Edison LP disc is the most porcine of pigs in a poke, and the investment required for the LP discs is far out of proportion to the pleasure one can derive from hearing them, at least in my experience. They have an undeniable "cool" factor, especially the 12" ones, but if I hadn't already headed down that road, I'm not sure I'd start now, knowing what I do.

All the LP discs were acoustically dubbed from standard diamond discs. In some cases, a classical or light classical work that took up two sides in standard format--for instance, Beethoven's Egmont Overture or Ponchielli's Dance of the Hours-- was joined for uninterrupted play, and to give credit where it's due the side joins were consistently well executed. If you'd like to compare the sound from an Edison LP disc to that of the standard disc from which it was dubbed, both being played on my C-250, you can access a video I put together through the link at the end of this article: https://www.tnt-audio.com/vintage/ediso ... ral_e.html

Thank you for posting the link. This is the first time I have heard an Edison LP disc and being able to compare it to the standard disc was especially interesting. Of course the fidelity on the standard disc was better. I wonder if there is any noticeable deterioration in fidelity as the stylus nears the end of the disc?

[drh]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I haven't noticed decay in sound quality of the LP Edisons as they go to the center, but to be honest I've been more focused on how some of them just sound poor throughout. The best of them that I've heard I'd class as just OK--sad to say, I think there's a reason this system was a commercial failure.

[jamiegramo]

I wonder how they would have sounded had they not been dubbed. It seems that these LP records never really had a chance with this policy of dubbing. That combined with cramming more sound into record space.

[MrRom92]

Is it true that every Edison long player was dubbed? Not a single one of their matrices was recorded specifically for the format?
That is a bummer if so. To my understanding most of the Victor long playing transcriptions were also dubbed, but there are at least a few known dedicated recordings (which ones, I could not tell you)

[drh]

Is it true that every Edison long player was dubbed? Not a single one of their matrices was recorded specifically for the format?
That is a bummer if so. To my understanding most of the Victor long playing transcriptions were also dubbed, but there are at least a few known dedicated recordings (which ones, I could not tell you)

My understanding is that all the issued Edison Long Play discs were dubs, although if I'm not mistaken one of them was (acoustically) dubbed at least in part from electrically recorded standard discs. Nauck's current auction has an unissued disc that may or may not have been an exception--I don't know--of Beethoven's 5th sym., all on one 12" 80 RPM record. Edison's house orchestra, the "American Sym. Or.," under house conductor Cesare Sodero. As the minimum bid is a cool $1,000, I don't imagine I'll be placing a bid on it.

Among the Victors, I know Stokowski let the Philadelphia Or. in an account of Dvorak's "New World" Sym. native to the long playing format. I think there were others, but I couldn't tell you what they were without doing some research. Most of the Victors, I gather, were dubs.

[MrRom92]

Is it true that every Edison long player was dubbed? Not a single one of their matrices was recorded specifically for the format?
That is a bummer if so. To my understanding most of the Victor long playing transcriptions were also dubbed, but there are at least a few known dedicated recordings (which ones, I could not tell you)

My understanding is that all the issued Edison Long Play discs were dubs, although if I'm not mistaken one of them was (acoustically) dubbed at least in part from electrically recorded standard discs. Nauck's current auction has an unissued disc that may or may not have been an exception--I don't know--of Beethoven's 5th sym., all on one 12" 80 RPM record. Edison's house orchestra, the "American Sym. Or.," under house conductor Cesare Sodero. As the minimum bid is a cool $1,000, I don't imagine I'll be placing a bid on it.

Among the Victors, I know Stokowski let the Philadelphia Or. in an account of Dvorak's "New World" Sym. native to the long playing format. I think there were others, but I couldn't tell you what they were without doing some research. Most of the Victors, I gather, were dubs.

Yeah, saw the Beethoven in the catalog…. Definitely neat but far above my paygrade. Someone will enjoy it!

I looked into things a bit more and what surprised me, at least for one Edison LP I looked at, is that none of the selections were also issued as standard playing Edisons. Test pressings of the master recordings (presumably those which were used for acoustic dubbing) exist at TENHP. But as far as whatever was commercially issued, it appears they were still exclusive to the new format.

Of course I can’t say if this was the case across the board for *every* Edison LP but it is the case for the one I looked into. One would assume the sales of the new long players were relatively low and it would have been pretty trivial to push the individual matrices into production for the normies.

[Damfino59]

I suggest those interested in Edison’s disc phonographs get George Frows book:

http://mulhollandpress.com/styled-5/sty ... index.html

There’s information on on the long playing consoles. The difficulty in recording live long play discs with a 450 groove per inch was the reason for dubbing. Towards the end of the 1920’s the phonograph division was experimenting with radio transcription discs. There were experimental 30 rpm long playing discs made for WAAM Newark New Jersey. This was done at the Edison Columbia St. studio near the factory. Of course by this time electrical recording had been perfected.

https://www.nps.gov/edis/learn/photosmu ... rdings.htm

I’ve been privileged to friends who have had Edison long play machines. One a C19 and the other a long play console with the large horn. From my memory, the recordings are not as loud as regular diamond discs. And not as much fun as a good acoustic dance band Edison disc.

My friend with the console eventually sold it. It was a large piece that took up space. The dark brown mahogany finish to me resembled “brown gravy”. And there was another model bigger than this one!

[MrRom92]

Is it true that every Edison long player was dubbed? Not a single one of their matrices was recorded specifically for the format?
That is a bummer if so. To my understanding most of the Victor long playing transcriptions were also dubbed, but there are at least a few known dedicated recordings (which ones, I could not tell you)

My understanding is that all the issued Edison Long Play discs were dubs, although if I'm not mistaken one of them was (acoustically) dubbed at least in part from electrically recorded standard discs. Nauck's current auction has an unissued disc that may or may not have been an exception--I don't know--of Beethoven's 5th sym., all on one 12" 80 RPM record. Edison's house orchestra, the "American Sym. Or.," under house conductor Cesare Sodero. As the minimum bid is a cool $1,000, I don't imagine I'll be placing a bid on it.

Among the Victors, I know Stokowski let the Philadelphia Or. in an account of Dvorak's "New World" Sym. native to the long playing format. I think there were others, but I couldn't tell you what they were without doing some research. Most of the Victors, I gather, were dubs.

Upon getting my invoice, I ended up winning one of the other 12” Long Plays in the catalog. Definitely not the Beethoven… but interesting enough.
I’m curious, do you know what the appropriate stylus would be to play this on more modern equipment?

[drh]

Upon getting my invoice, I ended up winning one of the other 12” Long Plays in the catalog. Definitely not the Beethoven… but interesting enough.
I’m curious, do you know what the appropriate stylus would be to play this on more modern equipment?

Congrats! As to the stylus, I don't know; I'd consult with Expert Stylus in England.

[NEFaurora]

Just to Add a note to this discussion.......Many Edison Diamond Disc Machines were sold with the 10" / 12" Buttons switch attached, but no 10" / 12" Long Play assembly installed. I guess Edison figured that the owner would get curious about the buttons that did literally absolutely nothing when you pressed them, then ask their Edison Dealer then to install the option. (I guess Phonograph Jobbers made House Calls in those days...lol.. ). - Tony K. Edison Collector/Restorer, Melbourne, Florida.