Brass MG horn question

[Steve]

Having no memory of ever seeing an original brass MG horn in the flesh, I usually have to rely on online photos to determine whether a horn is original or not when a gramophone is listed for sale. Do all brass MG Gramophone & Typewriter era horns carry the "PAT'D AUG 22.05" stamp near to the elbow fitting? I've attached a photo for others unfamiliar with this horn.

I've also shown a machine sold at the weekend by Auction Team Breker - a Deutsche Grammophon Monarch complete with "original" brass horn, although I cannot see the patent stamp on it. I expected the machine to sell for considerably more than it did, had the horn been 100% original. I'm assuming it wasn't? Are there any other obvious ways to determine via online photos alone, if a brass horn is original? I'm sure I would be able to tell the difference if I had one original next to one reproduction in front of me, but sadly, I doubt that opportunity will ever present itself!

[jamiegramo]

The horn with the patent date is obviously original but I cannot say that all original horns are stamped as such.

The Auction Team Breker horn also appears original but creased at the mouth of the horn. There’s nothing to suggest it’s a copy. It seems the copies have become as scarce as the originals. Copies ‘may’ not have the recess that the elbow pushes over to form a straight line.

Out of interest what did the Auction Team Breker machine sell for? I don’t follow their auctions as the prices go so high.

[Steve]

The horn with the patent date is obviously original but I cannot say that all original horns are stamped as such.

The Auction Team Breker horn also appears original but creased at the mouth of the horn. There’s nothing to suggest it’s a copy. It seems the copies have become as scarce as the originals. Copies ‘may’ not have the recess that the elbow pushes over to form a straight line.

Out of interest what did the Auction Team Breker machine sell for? I don’t follow their auctions as the prices go so high.

Not anymore they don't! It sold for 900 Euros.

I bought two machines on Saturday but I'm sort of kicking myself now that I didn't go for the DG Monarch at the price. Put another way, if that horn is original, it is certainly a much better buy than the Zonophone or the Pathé!

[jamiegramo]

Not anymore they don't! It sold for 900 Euros.

I bought two machines on Saturday but I'm sort of kicking myself now that I didn't go for the DG Monarch at the price. Put another way, if that horn is original, it is certainly a much better buy than the Zonophone or the Pathé!

Yes but if you’d bid it would have gone for more than 900 Euros. The condition of the brass MG was of concern because where it is creased the joins between the panels have cracked. Unless these could be silver soldered the horn could not be straightened.

[Steve]

Not anymore they don't! It sold for 900 Euros.

I bought two machines on Saturday but I'm sort of kicking myself now that I didn't go for the DG Monarch at the price. Put another way, if that horn is original, it is certainly a much better buy than the Zonophone or the Pathé!

Yes but if you’d bid it would have gone for more than 900 Euros. The condition of the brass MG was of concern because where it is creased the joins between the panels have cracked. Unless these could be silver soldered the horn could not be straightened.

Which is exactly what we see fairly often with the brass MG and other brass panel horns: ugly silver solder. Is there no way to add something of brass colour to it? Regarding the Breker example, I would have left the horn exactly as it is. I can only see a few split seams around the bell although it probably would look worse in the flesh.

[jamiegramo]

Which is exactly what we see fairly often with the brass MG and other brass panel horns: ugly silver solder. Is there no way to add something of brass colour to it? Regarding the Breker example, I would have left the horn exactly as it is. I can only see a few split seams around the bell although it probably would look worse in the flesh.

I think you’re confusing high temperature silver solder which can be brass coloured with lead based low temperature solder that is frequently used to make ugly repairs.

[Steve]

Which is exactly what we see fairly often with the brass MG and other brass panel horns: ugly silver solder. Is there no way to add something of brass colour to it? Regarding the Breker example, I would have left the horn exactly as it is. I can only see a few split seams around the bell although it probably would look worse in the flesh.

I think you’re confusing high temperature silver solder which can be brass coloured with lead based low temperature solder that is frequently used to make ugly repairs.

Thank you for that. I wasn't aware of it.

[jamiegramo]

I am intrigued by the brass MG with the patent date shown on a Cockleshell Monarch. Can you buy this?

[Steve]

I am intrigued by the brass MG with the patent date shown on a Cockleshell Monarch. Can you buy this?

Yes, it's on Ebay but it's not in great condition. I can add pictures or a link? It's German ebay item no. 296839927563

[Steve]

https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_nkw=296 ... m570.l1313