I believe this may be one of the earliest HMV 102 models. Can someone help confirm?

[pmichel]

This appears to be a very early HMV 102 in good to very good condition. Perhaps one of the earliest 102 survivors. I believe there were around 47,000 made. It doesn't have a serial number plate. Rather, it has the number "1780" engraved right into the wood itself. See image. It also has a No. 4 mica diaphragm and the 102 autobrake (see images). The way it plays, to me, sounds pretty good, but I'm no expert in gramophone audio quality. I am happy to upload a video if anyone wants to hear it in order to help me assess its audio quality.

As I researched this, I was a little confused at first, because I understood HMV 102s had the aluminum diaphragm and a serial number plate, but I've not seen any examples of 102 models with a No 4 mica diaphragm and where the serial number was carved into the wood.

If anyone can shed further light on this model and its background, I would appreciate it.

To be clear, I'm no expert. I received this portable gramophone from my late parents who received it from their parents. We used to play it every now and then when I was a kid and I found it magical, especially playing Stille Nacht (Silent Night) at Christmas.

[jamiegramo]

Hi and welcome to the forum! This looks like it’s a nice example.

This is an HMV portable model 101 and not a 102. The automatic brake does appear on later model 101’s in 1930.

[OrthoFan]

It's definitely a late production HMV 101 as noted. The HMV 102 from the start had the fatter exponential tonearm, a record storage carriage that sat over the turntable--there was no record storage provided in the lid--and the number 16 sound box. In addition, the standard black 102 was fitted with a metal wood grained motorboard that incorporated the horn underneath.

[pmichel]

Ohhhh. Okay, well that explains a lot. I thought only 102s had the brake, so I was certain it must be be a 102 and Claude AI of course confidently agreed with my incorrect conclusion! Thank you very much for clarifying that some 101s had brakes. That was a big help.

Any thoughts on the engraved number? The 101s I'm seeing all seem to have the serial number on a circular plate in the upper left. Is not the 1780 engraved under the turntable the serial number? If so, why is it such a low number is it's a later 101 model? And, if that's not the serial number, do you know where I might located it?

This piece has had me perplexed, but at least you give me a major insight. Thank you again.

[AmberolaAndy]

HMV 101, or 102 I would like to have either one but they are hard to get in my neck of the woods being not from the area they were sold.

[OrthoFan]

Is not the 1780 engraved under the turntable the serial number?

As far as I know, that's a part number for the motor-board. This goes into some discussion about the "mystery numbers" -- viewtopic.php?t=49091

Do you see anything that looks like a small nail hole or large pin hole on the motor-board near the horn compartment. It would be hidden by the edge of the turntable. If so, that's where the circular ID plate was once attached. The one I acquired about a week ago--a Spanish export model--was missing the ID plate, the the tiny, hard to spot hole was there.

OrthoFan

[OrthoFan]

HMV 101, or 102 I would like to have either one but they are hard to get in my neck of the woods being not from the area they were sold.

You should put a wanted ad in Yankee Trader. Based on what I've read over the years, quite a number of this forum's members own one or two or .... Perhaps someone would be willing to make a deal?

For either of these models it's worth investing a little more, since they're among the best performing portables ever produced, as well as the best built from an engineering standpoint.

OrthoFan

[pmichel]

Is not the 1780 engraved under the turntable the serial number?

As far as I know, that's a part number for the motor-board. This goes into some discussion about the "mystery numbers" -- viewtopic.php?t=49091

Do you see anything that looks like a small nail hole or large pin hole on the motor-board near the horn compartment. It would be hidden by the edge of the turntable. If so, that's where the circular ID plate was once attached. The one I acquired about a week ago--a Spanish export model--was missing the ID plate, the the tiny, hard to spot hole was there.

OrthoFan

Interesting. I just looked again and I thought I found a small nail/large pin hole on motor-board near horn compartment, but when I took a pic of it with the flash, I could see it was just an indentation and not a hole (see pic). However, it might be filled in because on the opposite side of the motor-board next the engraved '1780', I found two small nail-sized holes just above it that were apparently filled in with something (see pic), and then two more larger ones filled in to the right of that (see pic). Very interesting. I never noticed any of these before looking very closely just now.