Standard Model X (Columbia) speed control issue

[jboger]

I recently bought a Standard Model X front-mount machine, one of Columbia's client machines. I can't control the turntable speed: the platter either spins wildly or it doesn't turn at all. In other words, my machine is digital. It's either on or off, nothing in between.

I thought the issue might be the position of the governor disk relative to the brake pad. So I repositioned the governor. There's not much leeway, but in any case that didn't solve the problem. Nor did putting fresh grease on the governor disk.

I don't like Columbia's hybrid brake/speed control system. As you know, Victor decoupled the two. The brake is applied directly to the platter, and the speed control--a separate function--operates on the governor. Good system.

Columbia handled both the brake and speed control with the governor. When the brake pad presses hard against the governor disk, by sliding a brake rod all the way in, the governor stops. This works fine on my machine. I can stop and start the motor.

The speed control doesn't work. I screw the rod in and out and the speed does not change unless I screw the rod in far enough to stop the governor, otherwise the platter turns wildly. Everything is mechanically sound and works fine. The position of the brake pad moves in and out when I adjust the rod, and the governor weights move accordingly.

My apologies for going into these details, but that's where the devil is.

Could my problem be the brake pad itself?. I can see the brake pad, so it's there. But maybe it doesn't provide any compression to adjust the speed? If so, this is a new problem for me, but I'm not sure I've analyzed the problem well enough, that there might be something else. I'd like to know if anyone else has had this issue and solved it by changing the brake pad before I start idsassembling the motor.

I've attached to pictures.

John

[JerryVan]

What you describe tells me that the governor is not doing its job. Does the friction disc slide freely on the governor shaft, or is it gummed up and "glued" in place with old, dried oil? Another possibility would be someone in the past, changing the governor springs with something way too rigid. Your pictures kind of have me leaning in that direction.

Also, do not put grease on the friction disc, as you mentioned doing. Clean it off and use only light oil.

[jboger]

Hi Jerry:

Here's an update. I've removed the governor and taken it's arbor out. I had to use a blow torch in order to get the weight assembly to budge. I will now clean everything up, including the pivots, oil everything, and use only light oil on the governor disk.

I will give you an update when I can.

John

[jboger]

Jerry:

My head is bowed in silent admiration.

I spun a tale of woe, and you saw through all the BS. I pointed an accusatory finger at the brake pad and said, "There's the culprit; there's the SOB."

No, the brake pad was not the culprit. The first clue that you were right, that the governor was not working properly, was when I had to use heat to slide the weight assembly off the governor arbor. I cleaned everything up: the pivots, the pivot holes, the worm, and most importantly the governor arbor. I put everything back together and made sure the governor had some endshake and everything aligned properly--Columbia allows some play before one tightens down on the screws that hold the governor assembly in position. Also oiled what needed to be oiled.

I then cranked this baby up. Perfection. I'm not exaggerating. It works perfectly. Now I can control the speed. My Standard Model X is once again an analog machine.

The next step will be to dismantle and clean the entire motor.

John

[JerryVan]

John,

Happy to see it's working well!

Thanks for the kind words.

[Inigo]

Nice tale!
One never ceases learning...

[jboger]

I do have another question(s).

The mainspring is not in a barrel, but open. Let's say I wind the machine up and let it run. It runs smoothly, then the mainspring jumps. So the problem is, the coils are not slipping by each other, rather sticking. Will greasing the mainspring help or is this a problem with these open-air mainsprings and there isn't much you can do about it? I have removed or replaced the mainsprings from Edisons and Victors and have always greased them up before winding them back in. I could do the same for this Standard X despite no barrel.

This machine has been idle for a long time, I mean years. Would winding the mainspring repeatedly and letting it run "loosen up" the mainspring?

John