First Victrola - VV-XIV - Governor Weight reattachment

[Fignewton]

Hello everyone, longtime lurker - first time poster! I've used this forum as my guide for getting into the hobby. This is my 2nd talking machine, I picked up my first, an Edison Home Phonograph about 3 months ago, today I picked up my first Victrola, a VV-XIV. Once I got it into the house, I went to play my first 78 and I heard a part clunk inside the cabinet. Further inspection found one of the governor weights had came loose from the governor spring (all terms I learned today, btw). I have the weight, but how are these attached? I found a couple of places that offer replacement parts online, it seems most sell the weight with the governor spring, is that my best bet? Is there one supplier that you would recommend over another? Any other advice for a first time Victrola owner?

Thanks so much in advance.

[barnettrp21122]

Hello, and welcome to the board!
The governor weights (at least on mine) are fastened to the spring steel strips with small screws. Either the weight has fallen off, or more likely, the spring has broken or come off on either end.
If you need to replace one, you should replace all three so that the weights will be matched.
Before going further MAKE SURE YOU LET THE MOTOR WIND DOWN COMPLETELY BEFORE WORKING ON THE GOVERNOR.
With one weight broken, you'll have to hold the spindle with your fingers so it'll unwind slowly without clattering.
If you replace them yourself, take note when you take apart an intact weight and spring, so that you can see how the screws, washers, and especially the spring holes go together. Unless I'm wrong, I believe one end of each spring has an elongated hole, which serves to help the governor weights self-adjust during installation.
George Vollema is a fine source for parts and repair. Here's his link:
http://www.victroladoctor.com/

I'm sure there are several members that do governor work all the time who can offer further advice.
Good Luck!
Bob

[Fignewton]

It looks as if the weight just fell off the spring (which is still intact) though the screw is nowhere to be found. I can't tell if the screw broke or not, there only seems to be about a millimeter's worth of gap to screw into on the weight. Is the consensus that one replacement weight/spring may not match the other two so I should just get the complete governor assembly?

[barnettrp21122]

If you can find a proper-sized screw to fasten the weight, there'd be nothing to lose in just re-attaching and seeing if it runs smoothly. Please no phillips screws though! Wrong era!
Otherwise I'd still recommend ordering a set of three springs and weights for your governor. Talking with any dealer will help you determine exactly what replacements you'll need. Good luck!
Bob

[Henry]

What barnett said. You could take one of the remaining screws to your well-stocked local hardware store and search through the parts drawers to determine the thread size and length, etc. Failing this, a hobby shop might have a selection of small machine screws that would do. Or you could order through Vollema, et al. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

[Fignewton]

Thanks everyone for the help. I purchased a weight and screw from George and the install went fine tonight. However, I am an idiot and learned a lesson tonight, don't let the motor wind down without the turntable on it. A different spring on the governor snapped and now needs to be replaced. Sweet.

That one bummed me out, as I really should have thought about that and in hindsight, it seems elementary. I.e. excessive centrifugal force, etc. Have to adjust my logic.

All of this because I was trying to adjust the exposed speed needle. I set the rpm's to 78 using white tape and a stopwatch. Once done though the exposed speed needle was way off (showing fast at the end of the scale) so I was going to adjust it, but the above happened while winding down.

Is there an easy way to adjust the speed needle? It seems like it would be needed to do while the machine is running, as it ramps up to the regular speed. Or is it just hit and miss as far as guessing and getting lucky that it centers over 78? The manual wasn't really clear, as I have the exposed speed needle, wheras the manual is for the glass covered. (which seems easier to adjust!)

Thanks again for the help and patience with me!

[barnettrp21122]

Sorry to hear about the mishap! There's nothing more aggravating than being within spittin'
distance of finishing, only to have something happen. At least you didn't strip a gear!
The motor, if assembled correctly, shouldn't need the turntable on to be regulated. Were your governor friction leathers in place, and was your speed control lever in mid-position for starters? If not, that's the only reason I can imagine that the governor would spin uncontrolled.
I don't have a machine with the exposed speed indicator, but the later ones with the sliding door over them and glass window are regulated by loosening the tiny slotted screwhead (under the sliding door) and positioning the indicator while the motor is running at proper speed. Check to see if there's a tiny nut keeping everything tight. These little parts have an annoying way of breaking or getting stripped threads, so be gentle as you're making adjustments. Good luck!
Bob

[Fignewton]

I just looked and the "main"? leather friction pad (the one connected to the adjusting knob) was not touching the governor. (I had to spin the adjusting knob up quite a bit to get it to touch, wondering why the previous owner had it in that position) The speed control needle was in the correct place to start, but then as the turntable would spin up, it would climb to the end of the "fast" scale.

Am I right to think that, somehow, the the turntable on, record on, needle down and that speed needle maxing out, and putting pressure on the regulator with it's small leather friction pad... I was able to get 78rpms. So, as I'm thinking this through, it's not the needle that needed to be adjusted to read correctly, the main friction pad needed to be applied to bring the needle back off the friction inducing end of the scale, and back down to 78, with the main friction pad doing the work.

Correct?

The exposed needle machine doesn't have that adjustment screw under the dust cover, as it doesnt have a dust cover, the only adjustment I found was a screw underneath on the arm, which I think would be impossible to adjust while the machine is running.

Just as an aside, and I can slip this in here without it being too noticeable, how much should I crank the machine initially? Till I can't crank anymore, for a specific amount of time/revolutions, doesn't matter, etc? I always felt embarrassed to ask, but again I can sneak it into this wordy post.

Initially, I was bummed when this happened, but I don't mind. This is a learning experience and I learn better by doing than by reading. So at least I'm learning about the governing and speed control systems.

[barnettrp21122]

You're right about the governor friction pads. Things'll probably go well now that you understand how they work.
As far as the speed indicator adjustment goes, without first-hand knowledge I'd assume that you may just have to find the correct position by trial and error. Or, perhaps the indicator connection screw can be barely snug, and you can nudge the indicator while the motor's running, and then finish by tightening the screw. Maybe someone can give you better advice with this.
I've found that a single ten-inch record played on a typical Victrola will require about 18-22 turns per side. A good motor can be wound until it stops, but there's no real point in doing this, in my opinion. You'll develop a feel for how firm the resistance becomes as you wind it up. I'd guess your VV-XIV has three springs, so there'll be plenty of plenty of play-time if it's wound up about three quarters of the way when you start a session.
Some people always let their machines run down after playing. I do this for seldom-played machines, but don't for my daily players. I just calculate when I'll be through and not wind it up after the last record. There's been lots of discussion about the pros and cons about this in the past!
Keep us posted with your progress!
Bob