rjberns

[larryh]

Sadly the Victor 4 seems to have missed the mark somehow in the quest for improved sound by Victor.

Larry,

Have you ever heard a properly rebuilt #4? I'm guessing not, I actually did a "blind" tone test sort of thing with a friend of mine a couple of months ago. I played both a rebuilt orthophonic and a #4 on my 8-9 using an adapter and a few Victor electrics and it was pretty tough to tell the difference between the two.

Sean

Hi Sean,

So far I have only heard standard rebuilds of the #4 and they all were lackluster at best. So its possible that there is a way to eek out a more vibrant sound? Even reviews of the product when new mention it was among the least accepted of the victors as far as sound went, so I think in general it has some sort of flaw. The last one I owned was the portable using that reproducer. I purchased two different reproducers for it and neither ever had anywhere near the sound quality I would expect. Granted as I said, that larger diaphragm normally would create a better sound, but not in that case at least that I have heard so far. I am not an expert only a listener so it may be that some versions of it were more successful than the ones I have heard. Very far back I owned the larger of the table model orthophonics that used the mica diaphragm. At the time I rather thought it was pretty acceptable for the size of the machine.

[OrthoFan]

Very far back I owned the larger of the table model orthophonics that used the mica diaphragm. At the time I rather thought it was pretty acceptable for the size of the machine.

I'm curious as to which model that was. There were two table top models (non-portables) offered by Victor for the domestic market during the Orthophonic era.

The VV-1-70 -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/1-70.htm -- was fitted with the thin tapering tone arm and No. 4 sound box and because of this, was not considered an Orthophonic Victrola.

The larger VV-1-90 -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/1-90.htm -- was an Orthophonic model, with the standard Orthophonic sound box and tonearm, coupled to a small folded horn.

Interestingly, there's a 1-70 on youtube that IS equipped with an Orthophonic sound box; probably done as a retrofit at some point. It actually sounds very good, in spite of it's inadequate, short horn --

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFSJ9JgMjm0[/youtube]

Along this line, I've listened to the #4 sound box on a variety of Victrolas/Gramophones and would say it sounds best if played on a machine equipped with a well-designed tone chamber. The same sound box, of course, was used in the UK on their improved gramophones --table tops, cabinet models, and portables -- prior to adopting the Orthophonic design. I know that a few members of this board have some of these, and could probably offer their insight.

OF

[estott]

I have an HMV #109 table gramophone with a HMV #4 soundbox. It sounds quite decent though the horn isn't exponential. The neck of the horn takes a tight S-turn in the bottom of the case then flares out. The HMV #4 soundbox isn't pot metal so it's more stable in old age. The gaskets are different from the Victor model.

[larryh]

From my Look for the Dog book I would say that with all those considerations it was the 170 which used a similar case to the orthophonic style.

[OrthoFan]

From my Look for the Dog book I would say that with all those considerations it was the 170 which used a similar case to the orthophonic style.

The 1-90 was considerably larger and heavier than the 1-70, and rarely seems to come up for sale today. The 1-90 was priced at $75, while the Consolette was priced at $85, so for what amounted to a few dollars difference, most customers opted for the larger cabinet model, or if they really wanted/needed a table model, they'd opt for the $50 1-70.

I find the horn to be the most interesting feature of the 1-90 --



-- very similar to the one used in the second series Granada, though unlike the Granada's horn, the bottom of the 1-90's horn is flat.

I erred above in my statement about Victor only offering two table top models during the Orthophonic era. At the very bottom of the line was the VV-1-1 or Victrolita -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/1-1.htm (and it's companion, the children's model, the VV-1-2 or Alladin) They were about as cheap and basic as you could get for a name brand talking machine, and for some odd reason, they were fitted with an Exhibition sound box!

[estott]

[quote="Ortho_Fan"

I erred above in my statement about Victor only offering two table top models during the Orthophonic era. At the very bottom of the line was the VV-1-1 or Victrolita -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/1-1.htm (and it's companion, the children's model, the VV-1-2 or Alladin) They were about as cheap and basic as you could get for a name brand talking machine, and for some odd reason, they were fitted with an Exhibition sound box![/quote]

I suspect the 1-1 was offered partially because Victor had a stock of Exhibition soundboxes on hand.

[larryh]

Was there never a smaller version of this. I keep thinking I have seen on ebay some that were not as wide more of the shape of earlier table models?

[OrthoFan]

Was there never a smaller version of this. I keep thinking I have seen on ebay some that were not as wide more of the shape of earlier table models?

Yes. Those were made by the Gramophone Co., LTD., in the UK. (They have the "His Master's Voice" logo inside the lid.)

If I remember right, the ones in the earlier style cabinet, with the "dome" lid, starting in 1925, were fitted with the #4 sound box, swan-neck tone arm, longer horns, etc.. Though not comprehensive, the list included the models 126, 127, 109, 111 and 103.



--Not sure which HMV model it is--


Then, in the early 1930s, The Gramophone Co. produced table grands using (their version of) the Orthophonic sound box, fitted with long, internal--though non-folded--exponential metal horns. They included the 104 (which had a dome lid) and the larger 130, which was a boxy cabinet similar in style to the 1-70 and 1-90. The 150 came along in the mid-1930s with a more streamlined, Art Deco style cabinet --



HMV 104 Model


HMV 150 Model

[OrthoSean]

I landed a 1-70 on ebay last fall with a nice #4 on it. After a rebuild, it's a cute little machine with one helluva punch. Instrumental electrics sound especially nice on it.

Sean