Estate Sale Frustrations

[Lenoirstreetguy]

As I said before the seller's story has more holes than the 2010 production of cheese in Switzerland: sold it...not sold it...4 am clandestine phone calls....doing best by my old mother ...gonna auction it.... if you'd been NICER it'd be yours....et cetera. When we hear there is a mini series on PBS planned around the machine the saga will be complete.
Remember my granny's description?
JRT

[Starkton]

I don't understand why clueless sellers still sell off their phonographs at a fixed price on craigslist, instead of doing a little research to write a good description, taking some good photos and selling at ebay.

[bbphonoguy]

The two posts above are a little confusing to me since they seem to make reference to events that aren't mentioned elsewhere, but I'd like to comment on them, as best as I can understand them.

It seems that the seller placed an ad stating specifically when the sale would take place, then sold a very desirable item before anyone had a chance to see it, other that the one person who basically jumped in line. This is presented to us as ethical behaviour because it was what was best for the seller, and anyone else would have done the same thing (I can only imagine the public reaction if a government contract was given in the same manner). Truly, this is some new meaning of "ethical" that I'm not familiar with.

As far as the remark about being kind, yea the tire screeching was probably over the top, but it was what was best for the disappointed buyer, and anyone else would have done the same thing, so I guess that makes it socially acceptable behaviour.

Regarding being kept in the loop for anything you'd be selling; I'm not a potential buyer, but if I was, you strike me as just the sort of person that I would not care to buy anything from. Rather, you come across as someone who would do anything to come out on top, (you've already, if I understand you correctly, jerked the rug out from under at least two potential buyers) and then present some fol-de-rol about how you behaved ethically.

at the risk of sounding contrary - because I'm not at all looking for a fight or to argue for the sake of arguing - but I'm really just not understanding all of the animosity that I'm reading in this thread. and just in case, I'll throw out the disclaimer that I don't know the seller, or any of the buyers, and I have no interest in buying the phonograph being discussed (and we really should keep that straight, that this is a phonograph, just an interesting old record player that someone is selling, apparently for a relative, as part of a larger garage or private estate sale, government contracts and the laws - regardless of ethics - that govern them are really completely irrelevant).

I mean, so many of the comments about the original poster's situation just sound kind of petty and a bit covetous. it's certainly frustrating to miss out on an opportunity to buy something you want. but it's kind of silly to try to use some loose reference to ethics to justify a person's anger and frustration - and temper tantrum, if he really "burned rubber" screeching away from the place in his truck - over not obtaining something he felt some special entitlement to. this phonograph, this possession, was not his, it belonged to the seller... and so far as the comment about the tantrum, the screeching away in the vehicle, that that was ok because anyone else would have done it and it was probably what was best for the buyer? I don't see how that makes it ok at all. and what about what was best for the other person, the seller, the actual owner of this machine? if he could sell it for more money to someone else or in some other way, wouldn't that be best for him? and who are you to tell that person how he can and can't dispose of his belongings? and so far as ethics, laws, etc... there was no contract here, this wasn't even an auction - where the merchandise is handed over to a third party to take care of the sale, in accordance with both the auction's rules and any applicable laws. maybe I'm just missing something, but I just don't see what the big deal is here.

Hello Brianu

My "defense" of the tire screecihing episode was sarcasm. The seller was defending his actions by pretty much saying it was okay because that's what anyone would have done, so I was saying that to have a tantrum is also acceptable , since that's what anyone would have done too. I don't understand how you don't thinkd the buyer didn't have cause to be upset. The seller set some rules for the sale, then kept changing them to suit himself. That's pretty slimy to me. I guess I shold make myself more clear sometimes.

[bbphonoguy]

I'm in total agreement with you on the last few sentences - the music, the machines, the fact that to enjoy them you don't need a $6000 machine, or a $6000 machine that you found before anyone else on craigslist for just $600. I also agree that people should adhere to whatever rules apply in an auction setting, but that's why I stressed that that just didn't seem to be the case here. that a person is going to open his home, garage, property, whatever to sell a bunch of things at a certain time isn't really a rule, especially for your typical garage sale. I mean, what if the person wakes up sick or oversleeps, can he not start his 8 a.m. announced sale at 9 a.m.? and what if someone else was there at 8, then left, then you got there "late" around 9 and bought something that that guy wanted (and showed up a little later to buy). even disregarding all of that, what if the original poster on this thread showed up and the machine was there... there's no guarantee of anything, that the buyer and seller would reach an agreement, or even that the seller might decide, as I've seen before, you know what, that's been in our family for quite a while now, I think we'll hold onto it - would that be against the rules too? again, auctions are a bit different. but with these private garage sales and yard sales and the sort, I thought the only real rules - if they're rules at all - were first come first served, money talks, and especially, I think, nothing is yours until things change hands and until that time, the seller can decide to do whatever with what's his just the same as the buyer can walk away in full control of his money.

Hello again..do you really think the seller can do WHATEVER he wants? As in this case...state that a sale starts at a certain time, then tell someone, who's arrived according to the stated time, that you sold the item early, then say it's not sold, then put it on ebay, where there will probably be more confusioin when someone begs the seller to end the sale early.....

[brianu]

ha... no, of course not. yard and garage sales held informally at a person's/seller's home are one thing, auctions are another. I still feel that, regarding the former, the owner of the thing can pretty much do what he wants - unless there's some sort of agreement or law being violated, but I don't think a starting time counts... these are his belongings, no one else's. auctions are a bit more formal, there are laws that govern certain aspects, and the auction house and web sites have rules of their own. and I can totally understand the failed buyer's frustration with the situation - we've all set our sights on something we've not been able to obtain at one point or another. but that doesn't really give someone license to vent that frustration by acting like a child (and I'm not saying that was the case here), or becoming belligerent or overly self-righteous with critiques of the other party's lack of ethics or morals or whatever. personally, I still don't see the ethics issue here... until, of course, the machine apparently showed up on ebay, the implication being there really was a lot of storytelling here, possibly two screwed potential buyers, etc. that's kind of questionable behavior, mainly the dishonesty. but if there hadn't been any deals struck or arrangements or agreements made, then the thing was still unsold, so the seller really could under the circumstances do whatever he wants with his belonging. at least in my opinion. it's not the best way to go about doing business and I wouldn't want to deal with him, but no matter.

[bbphonoguy]

Brianu, you come across as a well spoken peron, and if I'm in the Philadelphia area I'd love to meet you, but remind me not to bother coming to your garage sale if you have one. I don't mean that to be insulting. I just think that if one advertises a time for a sale, and people are expecting things to be for sale at that time, then the seller needs to consider the people who are playing by the rules set up by the seller himself. You believe (apparently) that one should just change the rules as one goes along to suit one's self. I guess there's no harm in that, but again, just remind me not to waste time coming to your next garage sale. Of course one could run an advertisement for a sale that would state "Sale starts at 9:00, unless I get some offers that are too good to turn down or unless I find out I'm not asking enough for something.", that would probably go over big.

[brianu]

Brianu, you come across as a well spoken peron, and if I'm in the Philadelphia area I'd love to meet you, but remind me not to bother coming to your garage sale if you have one. I don't mean that to be insulting. I just think that if one advertises a time for a sale, and people are expecting things to be for sale at that time, then the seller needs to consider the people who are playing by the rules set up by the seller himself. You believe (apparently) that one should just change the rules as one goes along to suit one's self. I guess there's no harm in that, but again, just remind me not to waste time coming to your next garage sale. Of course one could run an advertisement for a sale that would state "Sale starts at 9:00, unless I get some offers that are too good to turn down or unless I find out I'm not asking enough for something.", that would probably go over big.

I can respect that... although I don't intend on having any more garage sales any time soon - the two I had before I moved were more than enough to deal with, not to mention the dealers that showed up in large trucks and suv's two hours early (I let them sit and went back to sleep). as I remember, the most annoying thing about that was that, when I went outside to start setting up, they literally raced each other to the garage, started ransacking everything, asked - or proposed ridiculously low - prices for what really was the best that was there, then insisted that all of my prices were just too high... by the end of the day, though, everything they asked about sold for what I wanted to other people anyway.

nevertheless, I think the point where we just disagree is the distinction between the loosely run, informal private sales (where the machine that started this thread first appeared) and the more regulated auctions (such as ebay, where that machine apparently ended up - although I couldn't find it there)... and that an announced starting time, to me at least, doesn't really amount to a rule. had I gone outside when those people first showed up and just started my sales (an hour or two) early by striking a few deals with them, I guess that would mean I would have broken the rules, at least based on my understanding your perspective. like I said, I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with that - lucky for everyone else who showed up "on time" or far later, those first arrivals were all cheapskates and I'm the polar opposite of an early bird.

[bbphonoguy]

Brianu, you come across as a well spoken peron, and if I'm in the Philadelphia area I'd love to meet you, but remind me not to bother coming to your garage sale if you have one. I don't mean that to be insulting. I just think that if one advertises a time for a sale, and people are expecting things to be for sale at that time, then the seller needs to consider the people who are playing by the rules set up by the seller himself. You believe (apparently) that one should just change the rules as one goes along to suit one's self. I guess there's no harm in that, but again, just remind me not to waste time coming to your next garage sale. Of course one could run an advertisement for a sale that would state "Sale starts at 9:00, unless I get some offers that are too good to turn down or unless I find out I'm not asking enough for something.", that would probably go over big.

I can respect that... although I don't intend on having any more garage sales any time soon - the two I had before I moved were more than enough to deal with, not to mention the dealers that showed up in large trucks and suv's two hours early (I let them sit and went back to sleep). as I remember, the most annoying thing about that was that, when I went outside to start setting up, they literally raced each other to the garage, started ransacking everything, asked - or proposed ridiculously low - prices for what really was the best that was there, then insisted that all of my prices were just too high... by the end of the day, though, everything they asked about sold for what I wanted to other people anyway.

nevertheless, I think the point where we just disagree is the distinction between the loosely run, informal private sales (where the machine that started this thread first appeared) and the more regulated auctions (such as ebay, where that machine apparently ended up - although I couldn't find it there)... and that an announced starting time, to me at least, doesn't really amount to a rule. had I gone outside when those people first showed up and just started my sales (an hour or two) early by striking a few deals with them, I guess that would mean I would have broken the rules, at least based on my understanding your perspective. like I said, I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with that - lucky for everyone else who showed up "on time" or far later, those first arrivals were all cheapskates and I'm the polar opposite of an early bird.

And I can respect that..

I think though, that if one advertises a start time, one should stick with it for the sake of those who think that an ad means what it says. I guess a reasonable option would be to state "Early Birds Welcome", or something like that.

[bbphonoguy]

Also Brianu, your garage sale experience reminds me of my sale at the flea market. I had people grabbing things out of my hands before I could even turn around to put them down. One particularly annoying fellow was constantly on the phone with his mother, trying to have her look up values of things on the internet for him. There was a set of plates that he kept asking me "What are they worth?" "Are they valuable?" All I could say was "I don't know, but that's the price, and no matter how many times you ask me, I still won't know." He bought them, then came back complaining to me because they weren't particularly rare or anything. Yea, like I made some kind of claim about them. I just took note of him so that I could refuse to sell him anything the next time I went to the flea market.

[Victrolaman]

Here is my 2 cents ..

If someone is having a yard sale or estate sale and they advertise as it starting at 9am Sat or what ever.. If someone calls ahead if they left the number in the ad and asked what they had forsale ahead of time and they have something the person wants, then naturaly the person is going to try and make a offer ahead of time before it starts? thats just normal. So noone else getrs a chnace to look at it The person selling this stuff doesnt care one bit who buys it or at what time, the whole object is for the seller to sell this stuff and make money.
Yes its frustraiting to see something like that machine at a sale and go to inquire about it and its been sold? I think the person should have asked is it still available before driving there so i have no sympathy for that. But if someone called me at 4 am for a yard sale id hang up.
So thats my 2 cents lol..
We all are out to sell things to make money first come first serve.