Hello, Need Help Understanding VE XVII!

[Scram]

Hello,
Me and my family bought a VE XVII at a garage sale for a hundred bucks, which seemed like a real steal. But once we got home and rigged it up to an outlet, we figured out it doesn't work. The weirdest part is that the table itself does not move. I know very little on turntables and phonographs, but isn't the table supposed to turn on its own?

We got this a year ago and have yet to fix it, even though we have gone through and tried tinkering with it. We bought the phonograph with a box full of records we want to listen to so bad. If only it was a crank, right?

My question is if there is a reason why the table wont move and if that's why it wont work, or if maybe the whole machine is fried. The man we got this off claimed he got it working, but who knows. If anyone has any knowledge to how this Electric Victrola works, I would be more than appreciative to listen and learn. Even if someone doesn't know, but knows people who can fix up Victrola's in the Washington area, I would be extremely happy.

I can take more pictures if needed but here are some taken on a cell phone, hence the terrible quality.

I don't know if any of this helps, but I would be so delighted if someone could help me get this up and running!

[Edit] Sorry for the horribly large photos...

[OrthoFan]

For 100 bucks, I think you got a true bargain!

The Victor electric motors were very basic, and very well made. However, I wouldn't recommend that you plug it in again until you either have it completely serviced, or service it yourself--both the electrical as well as the mechanical parts.

There are a number of collectors on this forum who have some experience with these types of motors who should be able to answer most of your questions, or give you some referrals. (I've never personally owned a Victor talking machine equipped with an electric motor.)

In the meantime, if you could post good quality photos of the motor, itself, that would help. The first thing to do is to swing the tonearm to the side, and remove the turntable by pulling it straight up off the spindle. Then, remove the screws holding the motor board in place. (Before lifting the motor board out of the cabinet, make sure that all of the connection plugs are disconnected.)

For what it's worth, here's a manual for a different Victrola model equipped with an electric motor, that provides the basic operation instructions, which should be about the same as your earlier model -- http://www.nipperhead.com/old/vic405.htm (Click on the thumbnail images to make them full size.)

Welcome to the forum.

[ChuckA]

You have what is called a universal motor, it is designed to work on 32volts AC or DC. The large unit you mention is the resistor bank, by connecting the correct wires between the various terminals the motor can be run from power line voltage from 100 to 230 volts. It appears in your pictures that the motor wiring is disconnected, definitely not going to run. There is also a good chance the old grease has solidified and the brushes are worn out. Unless you're real good mechanically and electrically, you will need to find someone to look at the motor.

Chuck

[Scram]

To Ortho_Fan
Thanks for such a quick reply! The tag on the table says "VE XVII 1103". I took a picture of it too. I also took a picture of the motor, but very low quality. I am currently charging my cameras battery, so I will soon get good pictures.

There were also two tiny instructional stickers on the back of the turntable that I tried to take a picture of.

[Edit] To ChuckA
So there is definitely no chance I can repair this easily? That's a shame. I guess I need to somehow find someone who can fix this.. Thank you so much for your information. Do you know anyone in the Washington/Seattle area that can help?

[gramophoneshane]

I found this circuit diagram online, which is found next to the resistor bank on VE-XVII 1679.
I have no experience with Victor electric motors at all, so I dont know exactly how the disconnected wiring up top is reconnected, but unless the two fittings at the end of the cables which are hanging down simply plug together & reconnect the whole circuit up to the power cord inlet, I would highly recommend having at least a qualified electrician look at it for you.
Any electrician worth his salt should be able to reconnect everything correctly according to polarity, check if the brushes are still usable, and check the resistors are fuctioning properly, the circuit is complete & the 80 yr old wiring is safe.

A lot of early wiring (well into the 1950s) used rubber insulation which deteriorates over time, so even light movement or bending of the wire can cause the rubber to crumble and allow wires to touch together that shouldn't. The implications of this can be anything from frying the motor &/or resistors, to burning your house down.
I've often heard claims made of anything from lost fingers through to decapitation when working on spring motors, but it's no exageration that electricity can KILL, so if you have no or little experience with electrical circuits, I truly think the most sensible thing to do is have this looked at by a professional, for the sake of you & your family.

As Chuck mentioned, it's not only the electrical side that needs attention, but the motor will need to have the mechanical moving parts & bearings stripped of hardened grease & sticky oil, & fresh lubrication of the correct type apply.
If no-one here can recommend someone to do the work involved for you, then I would start looking for someone (collector or service shop) who is experienced with antique valve radio equiptment.
Most of these guys are familiar with working on vintage record changers etc, and although this might be a lot older & basic than most have worked on, something like this should be well within their capability, and collectors particularly will be more inclined to preserve original wiring for historical accuracy (when safe to do so).
When sympathetically restored, I think this is a $1500-$2000(?) machine, so if it costs you maybe $100 or even $200 to have the running gear restored, you'll have a stunning antique that is safe & reliable at a fraction of it's worth, which you can enjoy for a lifetime, or can at the very least triple your investment on at anytime you wish to sell.

[Brad]

I have a VE-XVIII that I haven't futzed with in awhile but I can offer this:

The turn table should be able to spin freely on the spindle. if not, the spindle to table interface is probably rusted/corroded. The platter should lift off the spindle.

Heed the cautions others have given you regarding electricity and wiring. The wiring is very basic. you should be able to figure it out by referring to the wiring diagrams, how it is wired, and the condition of the wires. If you have basic electrical skills, you should be able to tackle this, if not, find someone that does. I would not think that you would need to hire an electrician, but if you can't find a friend, check out a shop that restores antique lamps or radios, or electric motors.

You will need to make sure after you verify/correct the wiring,that power is actually making it to the motor.

These universal motors are finicky, (hence the futzing comment). The motor brushes may be worn out, missing, or corroded and need servicing. You may need a motor shop to help with motor specific issues.

Finally, don't forget basic lubrication.

At $100 you got an excellent deal and it is definitely worth the effort and a little expense bringing this guy back to life.

[Jerry B.]

I wish I could give you good advice about repairing your XVII but I can't. I would start at a business that repairs & rebuilds automotive starters and alternators. If they can't make repairs, I bet they could point you in the best direction. Don't give up on your Victrola. The XVII is much nicer than a starter machine for a novice collector and the electric version sold in very small numbers. It is an elegant machine and worthy of repair. Jerry Blais

[Phonofolks]

Just like Brad and others were saying make sure wires are connected and all mvoeable parts move freely before plugging it in. I had an electric victrola one time that would not work when I brought it home. The problem was the motor and other parts were gunked up with harden grease and all that had to be done was to clean the motor and affiliated parts. It then it worked like a charm. I bet you can get this to work in no time. Good luck.

[Phonofolks]

This looks like a 110 volt connection. By looking at the seocnd picture of your first posting and compariing it to the paper diagram it looks like both leads from the lower or lamp cable are not connected to the lower resistance coil. Just an observation.

[Scram]

Thank you all so much for the feedback. To the question just before this, we didn't connect the wires for the lamp because we didn't have a lamp to put on the table, so it seemed unnecessary to hook it up.

A friend of my fathers is an electrician, but when we told him about this he was baffled. I'm thinking of going on craigslist and seeing if there is anyone in my neck of the woods that can possibly repair this. Would this be a wise idea?