the late Roger Thorne's collection (article and photos)

[syncopeter]

George, I cannot but agree to that. The only alternative would be to display everything in glass cases and have only a handful less expensive machines in the open for demonstratition. Just look at the horrors on Youtube.

Peter.

[larryh]

I would say there are others out there who have lived similar lives! Some still do.

[need4art]

Hi All,
It's important to realize that general statements can set a trend that is neither true nor warranted. I am currently doing work for three museums that do not fit the content of this conversation. One of my clients has donationed the largest privatly held collection of native american art held in the US. I have worked on the collection for over 15 years. The Fred C.Jones Museum part of the University of Oklahoma is having me continue to work on the collection to make sure that it is preserved and presented correctly. In fact they are building a new building to house this collection.

The truth is that often times the party donating the work, or items does not do the research to make sure that they are giving it to the right institution. I have found that when this is done they will either take it and do what needs to be done or will not add it to their collection.

Yes sometimes things are not always taken care of, but reduced tickets sales, public interest and government funding have led to less than stellar performance in most of the smaller museums but that is not the way they all are.

Just my 40 years in this field talking

Abe

[phonogfp]

Abe, I was careful to specify "talking machines and records" in my comments, along with mentioning my tremendous respect for some public museums. I certainly didn't intend to malign museums in general, nor were my comments directed toward artifacts other than talking machines and records.

Especially where fine art is involved, only a museum can provide effective object conservation and proper protection from light, humidity, and temperature variations. If I had a collection of art, I wouldn't hesitate to consider an appropriate museum for its ultimate destination. Unfortunately, talking machines have not generally received similar care in the custody of many museums. Thus my earlier comments.

If you carefully re-read my earlier post, I'm confident you'll see that my concern is limited to talking machines and records. It wasn't my intention to impugn the fine work of museum conservators, and I sincerely apologize if my earlier posting was interpreted that way.

(As a matter of fact, I'm looking for an object conservator in the Rochester, NY area who can remove water stains from a paper label beneath the lid of a United States Talking Machine which recently came my way.)

Best to all,

George P.

[Steve]

Do you know who won the "Melba" reproducer?

Someone with unsually deep pockets! We've been talking about this elsewhere and can't figure out which machine, if any, this particular soundbox belongs to? Or was this just a 'trophy' item for the collector who has to have everything or simply the rarest of the rare?

[need4art]

Hi George, Sorry about the soapbox, and I was not trying to take you to task, I did read what you put in the thread. I just wanted to put some light onto the whole "museums are a bad place to leave things to-or on the other side-just leave it to a museum". I don't know why, maybe it is an ageing population with children that do not have a passion for things that their folks collected, but I have been getting a lot of calls from folks who really do not want to sell what they have collected but want to know what to do with it. I wish some would call that had antique phonographs I would really be able to help them!

While I am fairly new to this hobby I know that you have been involved for a really long time-but not everyone really reads every word before they make up their mind about something.

On your other matter I do not know any one directly in New York. But Google the Pennsylvania Art Conservatory-I have worked with them on a number of occasions and they do great work. If that does not work for you send me a PM and I will see what I can do.

Abe

[syncopeter]

I was talking specifically about museums for phonographic history. The Dutch museum Speelklok can manage reasonably well, but only because of a yearly grant from a big lottery and as a popular venue for receptions and conferences outside of normal opening hours. Rent and upkeep of the building, continuous maintenance of the precious collection can only be covered in part by entrance fees. Speelklok has a fullblown restoration atelier. Over the past two years they restored musical clocks from the Forbidden City in Beijing that were insured for $2.5 million apiece! So enough expertise there.
A phonographic museum would never be able to get even 5% of their funding.

[1923VictorFan]

It's really sad that there is no museum (local or otherwise) that has the resources to both preserve and display some of the most rare machines.
I have no doubt that all of you who responded to my post are unfortunately correct. My only knowledge of such things is from that of my mothers family which was one of the earliest settlers of Texas (when it was still a part of Mexico). In the 1980's, after the oldest family members died, we donated tons of stuff from documents to paintings, flags and militaria dating from the 1830's up to WW-I to The Texas State History Museum / Archive. They were thrilled to have it and now it is safely stored while also being available for viewing.
I also agree that given the state of financial instability no one will protect and preserve these items better than a collector who truly recognizes, appreciates and enjoys the things.
It's still sad.

[penman]

Like others who've posted here, it's sad that small museums, or museums whose focus and displays are not "Disneyfied" find it difficult to attract money or visitors. In some cases where there are some good collections they are hidden away. We just returned from vacation in Budapest, and the Museum of Ethnography is supposed to have a very good collection of cylinder machines and recordings made by Bela Bartok around the turn of the century. After wandering the museum without success we asked the information person. "Oh yes we have a very large collection of early phonographs and music, Oh no we don't put it on display." AHHHHHHHHHHHH