when the needle won't reach the record...???

[brianu]

I haven't encountered this problem before and was curious whether anyone else had... I recently had an orthophonic tonearm assembly rebuilt, with a new support bracket installed to replace the broken original one. when I got it back, I put it on the machine and everything seems correct... the base is correct, the swing range of the arm is correct, the needle reaches the center spindle, etc.... but when I put on a record and set the reproducer into playing position, the needle winds up hovering just a bit above the record and turntable by about an eighth of an inch or so.

there are two small screws on the arm that provide support for the U-tube portion (that holds the reproducer), and that basically allow it to only swing or swivel so far whether it's in non-playing position (with the needle and reproducer facing up) or in playing position (with the needle and reproducer directed down at the disc). if I remove the one screw that holds it in playing position, it allows the reproducer to drop as far as it can go without limitation and the machine then seems to play just fine (but then there's the hole in the arm for the screw that I've just removed). I checked the arm on my credenza and it only has the one screw that holds U-tube in non-playing position. for some reason, this arm has two screws though, and it's that one that seems to be causing the problem.

now I'm wondering whether I'm doing something wrong, if it could have been rebuilt improperly, or I don't know what. hopefully this makes sense and someone can offer some suggestions because I'd really like to figure this out.

thanks.

[Phototone]

You know, the tone-arm for the Orthophonic Automatic (the one that changes records) features the 2 screws. As the arm lifts from the back and the gooseneck part has to be limited in swing so as to lift off the record when the back is raised. I wonder if your tonearms got accidentally switched?

[brianu]

originally I was working with a gold plated arm, but I needed on in antique bronze. I can't remember whether the gold one had one or two screws. the dealer who rebuilt everything for me swapped them out and supplied a bronze tonearm that he had - and that one has the two screws and is the source of my problems at the moment. I actually found an extra bronze ortho tonearm, of the same size and style, last night among my parts though... I forget from what parts machine I originally pulled it, but it was something basic like a 4-4 I think, and that one has two screws as well.

could there be another explanation?

and if this arm was used originally for a machine with a changer, would the only difference between it and a correct arm be that the correct one should only have the one screw (such that, if I just remove the one that's interfering with the playing position, all will be ok)?

[barnettrp21122]

and if this arm was used originally for a machine with a changer, would the only difference between it and a correct arm be that the correct one should only have the one screw (such that, if I just remove the one that's interfering with the playing position, all will be ok)?[/quote]

No, the arms and crook were different for the changers. On these the crook curves to the right in the playing position, with the reproducer teardrop openings facing the spindle. I figure this was so customers wouldn't attempt using bamboo needles on the changer, as the triangular needle chuck is inverted in the changer's playing position. The tonearms used no overhead support bracket either.
Bob

[brianu]

hmmm... so any ideas what else could be causing this, or why that extra screw won't allow the needle to drop fully onto the record?

[Kirkwood]

Interesting. I have an Orthophonic 8-12 that I bought with the usual broken pot metal support. I replaced it with the new casting, and the same thing happened to me. The arm swings fine, everything looks to be fine, but because of that one screw on the U-crook, the needle in the reproducer fails to make contact with the record. As far as I can tell, this arm was always with this 8-12, it came from a dealer that has no parts inventory (nor mechanical skills for that matter). In this case, this arm is in the bronze finish, as are all parts with the machine. I removed the offending screw, aware that this compromises the air-tight chamber of the arm, and resolved to investigate further some other day. Of course, I had to leave the second screw in position so the crook wouldn't flop too far the other way and have the reproducer drop backward onto the turntable.
So do we think that Victor had a short-lived variation on the tone arm support casting? Since the original fell to pieces when I tried to remove it, there's no going back to figure this one out.
As it stands now, I'm in Washington and the 8-12 is resting comfortably at my father's house in NY, so I can't look at it make any comparisons. I'd be interested to know what you find out.

[AZ*]

My 8-9X has a similar tone arm with the 2 screws. To solve the problem, I took out the original "extra" screw and replaced it with a short set screw to plug the hole. Now the needle reaches the record just fine, and the set screw prevents an air leak.

[Retrograde]

I've also seen an 8-9 with the two screw tonearm that I'm pretty sure was original to the machine. the solution was to remove the screw and then cover the hole from the inside of the crook. I don't have a good explanation for the extra screw. Maybe the needles were longer in the old days.

[Guessing]

I've seen one 8-12 with the original tonearm support in place. It also had two stop screws. The sound box easily made contact with the record, but if you moved the tonearm to the side, beyond the rim of the turntable, it stopped short of touching the wood by about ¼ inch or more. This was obviously done to prevent damage to the sound box if, for whatever reason, it would skid off the edge of the record, or was carelessly dropped.

I'd guess that if you looked carefully at an original back support bracket, and compared it to the reproduction, you'd find that the original positioned the tonearm slightly lower so the sound box's needle would make contact with the record.

[brianu]

I've seen one 8-12 with the original tonearm support in place. It also had two stop screws. The sound box easily made contact with the record, but if you moved the tonearm to the side, beyond the rim of the turntable, it stopped short of touching the wood by about ¼ inch or more. This was obviously done to prevent damage to the sound box if, for whatever reason, it would skid off the edge of the record, or was carelessly dropped.

I'd guess that if you looked carefully at an original back support bracket, and compared it to the reproduction, you'd find that the original positioned the tonearm slightly lower so the sound box's needle would make contact with the record.

yes, that's how it's supposed to work, to prevent damage.

and I also at first thought it might be due to some small variation in the reproduction bracket that added a bit of height to the tonearm. my understanding as well, after talking to another collector, is that this can be adjusted somehow such that both screws remain in place and function properly, allowing the needle to contact the record as it should, but not drop down so far as to reach the motor board (or even the turntable, I think). I'm going to play around with it when I get some time this week and hopefully figure it out.