Opinions needed

[briankeith]

Just a quick opinion needed from you all. I recently purchased a modern made resin/plastic ELECTROPHONE INDESTRUCTIBLE CYLINDER PHONOGRAPH ADVERTISING RECORD on EBay. I was not that impressed with the sound quality, and I also had a very hard time keeping it from wobbling on the phonograph's mandrel. It ran like a roller-coaster until I put some electrical tape inside the cheaply made cardboard inside the record cylinder. Now I was thinking about buying one of those "AROUND THE WORLD WITH THE EDISON PHONOGRAPH" cylinders made by Edisonia. These are supposed to be "limited edition" of 50 I think. My question again is the quality. They sell for a lot of money, so are they really worth it? I ask this because my wife used to collect these so called "limited edition" die-cast metal 1/24 scale Chevy Corvette models from the Franklin Mint, now only to find out that she cannot give them away at a yard sale, and she paid over $100.00 a piece for them over several years of collecting. I just wonder why these resin/plastic repro cylinder records command such a very high price ?? Brian Keith

[brianu]

you can probably answer your questions for yourself, as you pretty much have already. these contemporary cylinders and similar projects are no easy task and - as discussed in various other threads on this forum concerning modern reproduction parts, machines (aside from the average "crapophone"), etc. - require significant investments of time, effort and money. given the limited interest in such things, there's really little point in producing them in great quantities (which might otherwise allow for lower prices), so the only way to recover the cost is to charge such relatively high sums for the few that are made.

if it's just the content of the cylinders you're interested in, you can always try to find digitized verions on-line or even from the person making them. if you really want to hear that content on an actual cylinder however, and you can't find or afford an original, then you'll probably just have to bite the bullet so to speak and pay the asking price for the reproduction - with this sort of thing, I really don't think there are many if any bargains to be found (and really, considering the skill, knowledge and craftsmanship that goes into these, should there be?).

[VintageTechnologies]

@ briankeith: I think there are several makes of replica cylinder on the market. Some may be better quality than others.

Are you familiar with the Vulcan Cylinder Record Company? http://www.phonographcylinders.com I have heard examples on YouTube that sound fine -- for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBjz_j-LDAw

A friend of mine has a Vulcan resin 5" concert cylinder ("The Liberty Bell March") that sounds top notch.

Considering the work and time expenditure to develop a practical manufacturing process and that a metal mold has to be created, I think the costs are justifiable.

[Valecnik]

The Berlin phono works cylinders are really good quality in my opinion. Check out this "Kansas City Kitty" recording I posted awhile back. You can see on the video that the cylinder runs round and not wobbly at all and the sound quality is excellent.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ayjTjsW41c[/youtube]

[TinfoilPhono]

The Electrophone records were (I believe) the first replica cylinders made of unbreakable plastic material, back in the 1980s. (They made some wax ones previously.) Over time these have not all held up well, perhaps due to shrinkage of the material. I have a copy of the Advertising Record and although it fits the mandrel fine, the sound quality is not equal to that of the recent copy sold under the Wizard brand by Peter Dilg. That one is superb. (I believe that his records are actually made by Vulcan, under contract.)

I have 3 Vulcan Concert cylinders, which are now being offered in brown color that looks exactly like the real thing. They are fantastic. Loud, clear -- just like originals only unbreakable. I also have one of Peter Dilg's black Concerts, which is equally fine. I love having such records for demonstrations, despite the price. I don't have to worry about mold, chipping, cracking, or breaking.

I also have both of Vulcan's "brown wax" titles, again made of plastic that looks exactly like brown wax, and also Norman's magnificent reproduction North American cylinder complete with channel rim and paper label. Those are all quite simply fabulous recordings. I use the Vulcans on my early coin-ops. It's great to have a good-sounding, correct-looking record on the mandrel that once again is worry-free. I don't have to be concerned about temperature variations or wear. They are much better than the original black Indestructibles I used on coin-ops previously, most of which do suffer from some shrinkage and occasionally skip a groove.

In addition I have one of Norman's Caruso 2-minute cylinders, and his "Blue Amberols" of Kansas City Kitty and St. Louis Blues. I give all of them top marks.

I have no way of telling how well these new reproductions will hold up over the years, but I give all of them a big thumbs up. They are not cheap, but for the purposes I use them for, they are worth it to me. I'd rather pay $100 for a perfect-looking, perfect-sounding unbreakable Concert cylinder replica than $100-$150 for an original which is supremely fragile. (I have a number of originals, they are packed away now.) And since I'll never be willing to pay the price of an original Kansas City Kitty, I'm very happy to have a very good replica to play as much as I want.

[Valecnik]

I agree on Norman's stuff. I also have the St. Louis Blues one and it's very professionally done.

[alang]

I just received 3 Vulcan 2 minute cylinders and are very happy with them. They look and play great and allow me to demonstrate playing a cylinder record during a party without having to worry about temperature, handling etc. Aside from shipping from the UK I thought the vulcan cylinders are surpisingly affordable. They also seem to work together with the Berlin phono works, but are much cheaper. They even offer to make custom cylinders for £220 for the mold including the first 2 cylinders. Expensive for one alone, but could be an option for a handfull collectors to make a small series of a specific rare titel. You'd probably end up with a price like the Berlin phono works titels for each.
Andreas

[gramophoneshane]

I bought 4 Electrophone records back in 1985 just after they came out. I always thought the sound quality was rather good, but occasionally I had trouble getting them on the mandrel.
The cardboard core doesn't line up with the inside of the title end, so if you slide them on the mandrel as you would other cylinders, the mandrel catches on a lip inside the cylinder. When this happens, just lift the cylinder end slightly, and the mandrel will pass the lip & it should slide on properly. Fortunately I've never had the same problem with my Vulcan cylinders.
My only complaint about Electrophones is the vinyl they're made of. A couple years ago one of mine started to shed it's skin. I don't know if it's because of the type of vinyl used, or a combination of the vinyl & the process used to mold them, but what appeared to be a clear top coat on the record blistered in one spot and eventually tore away with the stylus.
It hasn't happened to the other 3 cylinders, & they all got used pretty much the same amount, so I guess it's possible that this one cylinder had some kind of manufacturing flaw.
The cylinder still plays fine, but there is a soft click when the stylus passes over the edges of the damaged area.
With any luck, this isn't a common problem with these early Electrophones, and the remaining cylinders won't deteriorate in the same way.
I suppose even if they do, I only paid $20 each for them so I've well & truly got my moneys worth in entertainment over the last 26 years.
The new Vulcans appear to be made of a different vinyl composition, so I doubt the same thing will occure in years to come, but then again it's impossible to tell what other problems could arise over time with any of the materials being used nowdays.

[Andersun]

I purchased an "AROUND THE WORLD WITH THE EDISON PHONOGRAPH" cylinder made by Edisonia direct but don't have it yet. Does anyone have experience with Edisonia?

[reprorecordfan]

These Vulcan cylinders are great. I bought a copy of Around the World by Thomas Edison from Edisonia and he took a while but it did arrive, I was impressed. I love these new cylinders. Also, I had bought an electrophone from Peter Dilg back in the 1990's, it was about a 10 year old record when I bought it, the record was entitled "Yankee Doodle" by Billy Murray and "Liver Story" by Thomas Edison, and I played it maybe 10 times and it just cut to pieces, like shredded the coating off..I threw it away, I don't think they fit very well either, my stylus was good and I was disappointed, I made just above minimum wage so I worked about a ½ day for it. I guess that was the early beginnings....fast forward 20 years, these are the best cylinders by Vulcan, you can also find their products through Wizard Cylinders, Berlin Phonograph Works and Edisonia. The copy of Liver Story was good and as soon as Vulcan released it, I sold my Electrophone copy and bought a Vulcan, it is better.

I don't think we will have problems with these records, just make sure the stylus is good. The titles they issue are also good, why pay $ 500+ for a copy of Kansas City Kitty, with splits and chips, you can get a nice copy from Norman at Berlin Phonograph Works for around $ 100.00. Also, they have a nice set of brown cylinders to look like brown wax! Tell me where you can get brown wax era (1890's) recordings for around $ 100.00. The old originals are so fragile and can go in excess of $ 100.00 easily.

With Edisonia....Hang in there he will get your copy to you. I think it takes them time to mold these records.