HMV 156 vs. Victor Consolette

[David Spanovich]

I noticed a post on the UK Gramophones site about an HMV 156 that recently sold.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-HMV-156- ... 0745779017

HMV 156.JPG (14.84 KiB) Viewed 4054 times

HMV 156 Open.JPG (41.29 KiB) Viewed 4054 times

HMV 156 showing horn.JPG (16.61 KiB) Viewed 4050 times

There are a few videos of the 156 on this page --
http://www.youtube.com/user/navi78156#g/u

These were fitted with an HMV #4 sound box, coupled to a "swan-neck" tapered tonearm, and connected to an elongated horn, that sort of snaked back and forth in the chamber, exiting at the louvered mouth.

I've wondered, since the cabinet is virtually identical to the one used for Victor's Consolette, if (the cabinet) was manufactured in the US and exported to the UK or if HMV was provided with the tooling, etc., for it's manufacture?

I know that Victor exported this cabinet to the Mexican market -- the Victor 4-1 Consolette -- but it was fitted with left over horns, tonearms and reproducers from it's pre-Orthophonic line.

DS

[syncopeter]

They are virtually the same indeed. HMV had a line of table top and cabinet machines, based on the no. 4 soundbox and narrow bore swan neck tonearm, until the introduction in 1928 of their 'orthophonic' series. They most probably had problems with the high license costs of the orthos until these were lowered. I've seen and heard a model 162 and that sounded quite good. Not as bold-in-your-face as its successor and quite forgiving for the 'old' acoustic records. The 162 had a saxophone type horn. This one looks more like a smaller model 511, that was based on leftover 510 Lumiere cabinets.

[brianu]

seems like a decent price... I guess the ring must have missed this one.

[gramophoneshane]

I've wondered, since the cabinet is virtually identical to the one used for Victor's Consolette, if (the cabinet) was manufactured in the US and exported to the UK or if HMV was provided with the tooling, etc., for it's manufacture?

I very much doubt HMV were getting the cabinets from Victor, as the 156 was also available in oak, but the Consolette was only offered in mahogany.
HMV seems to have copied/used numerous standard oak/mahogany Victor cabinet designs, almost from the start, so there was definately some design sharing going on until the orthophonic era. HMV's model 11, 12, 14, 16, appear to be identical to Victors VV-XVI, XVII, etc, just to name a few.
But where Victor seems to have offered "deluxe" cabinets aimed at the higher end market, HMV tended to aim it's cabinet variations to the lower-mid class buyer.

[David Spanovich]

seems like a decent price... I guess the ring must have missed this one.

The only problem I see with it is that the outside of the cabinet has been painted black, as noted in the original ebay ad. Here's a brightened version of the photo which shows it in more detail:

156 interior brightened.JPG (32.58 KiB) Viewed 3968 times

[gramophoneshane]

seems like a decent price... I guess the ring must have missed this one.

The ring wouldn't be interested in a machine like this because there's no $$$$ to be made

[David Spanovich]

I very much doubt HMV were getting the cabinets from Victor, as the 156 was also available in oak, but the Consolette was only offered in mahogany.

HMV seems to have copied/used numerous standard oak/mahogany Victor cabinet designs, almost from the start, so there was definately some design sharing going on until the orthophonic era. HMV's model 11, 12, 14, 16, appear to be identical to Victors VV-XVI, XVII, etc, just to name a few.
But where Victor seems to have offered "deluxe" cabinets aimed at the higher end market, HMV tended to aim it's cabinet variations to the lower-mid class buyer.

Hi Shane:

Many thanks for posting that. I've never seen a 156 in oak.
What you say makes sense. Too bad they couldn't have gone the "full monty" offering it equipped with the (non-folded) exponential horn and Ortho sound box. Still, I have to say that I'd take a 156 in oak before I'd take an Orthophonic Consolette any old day.

DS

[syncopeter]

As I see it and mentioned before, the non-folded horn models were a kind of stopgap, because their versions of the orthophonic models would be too expensive for the British and European market. I think that just the Victor Credenza was made in much larger numbers than all post 1925 HMV cabinet models put together.

[Steve]

seems like a decent price... I guess the ring must have missed this one.

The Ring has no interest in bog standard commoner machines like this that are not worth any money. Quite beside this fact, the Ebay example had been painted and is therefore next to worthless! At £250 it was about £100 over-priced for a nice example. As it stood, it was more like £200 over the mark. Abbey Antiques are not exactly known for their extensive knowledge of gramophones or indeed for selling rare or cheap ones either.

[David Spanovich]

As I see it and mentioned before, the non-folded horn models were a kind of stopgap, because their versions of the orthophonic models would be too expensive for the British and European market...

After listening to this HMV 109 play --

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3mYgmKc634[/youtube]

-- I'm wondering why the Gramophone Co. even bothered with the Orthophonic Victrola.

Seems to me, with a little tweaking of the basic design--perhaps an improved sound box incorporating an aluminum diaphragm to enhance the bass response, and a resigned horn mouth, dispensing with the louvers and straight edges--they could have come up with something every bit as good.

Along this line, has anyone ever done comparison tests, trying out different sound boxes on some of the HMV "Improved" (1925-1927) models? Might be a fun rainy or snowy day project.

DS