Lambert Imperial 6-inch cylinders in RED celluloid

[RefSeries]

Imperial Record No. 14, Imperial Concert Band: By the Swanee River

The CLPGS list in Reference Series No.6 lists as many known cylinder catalogue numbers as have been found. It is due for a new edition containing additional data, probably in the spring. The Imperial list is taken from Frank Andrews' list, so if you would be prepared to post a picture of the title ring of your No.14 we would be happy to correct an incorrect entry.

I have Imperial 6 inch in black no 18.

Same request - could you post details of your Imperial too, please? We will arrange for the right entry to be made.

I have four Imperials, all black. They were made by the British Lambert company in their facility in the Edison Bell factory in Euston Square, London. The very first releases were red, but they quickly changed to black celluloid over a fibre core, the sasme as their standard size issues. The catalogue never reached the announced target of 100, as far as we can find from publications here, and they were only produced for about four months between August and November 1905. Given that a buyer had to either buy a new phonograph (or already own an expensive Columbia 20th century) to play them, and that the UK market was moving to the disc, it is no surprise that not many were sold.

[RefSeries]

Imperial Record No. 14, Imperial Concert Band

Dear Starkton - Would you be prepared to post a quick picture of the title ring of your magnificent red Imperial, please?

I have Imperial 6 inch in black no 18

Dear Budsta - Same request.

The Imperial list in CLPGS Reference Series No.6 is taken from Frank Andrews' list of the 1970s, and obviously we would like to make it as accurate as possible - if there are any errors we would like to correct them for the benefit of all. There are a couple of duplicate titles, which look wrong, so if we can fix there so much the better. The first editions of RS6 had over 60,000 cylinders listed but it is hoped to get a new edition of the database out in the spring, as many additional titles have been tracked down (particulary International and Pathé).

I have four Imperials, all black. They were only made between August and November 1905, and considering that users would have had to either buy a new six inch phonograph (or already have a Columbia 20th Century) and that the Brit market was moving to the disk by that time it is no surprise that the target of 100 titles was not achieved. The very first cylinders were red but Lambert quickly moved to black celluloid on a fibre core, similar to their standard sized records. I have never seen a red standard sized cylinder or heard details of a title above No.84, but this isn't to say that these don't exist.

3 Imperial machines that Edison-Bell marketed in 1905

The 'Lambertphone' machines which would play the six inch cylinders were made by Excelsior in Germany and badged Imperial. They started at £1 each, marketed by Lambert, and are relatively simple machines and look like most other Excelsiors but have a two spring motor. Having said that I have one (a Number One) and it runs quite well and is handy to play shrunken cylinders like uncored Lamberts and Internationals which won't fit a standard mandrel.

All Brit Lamberts were produced in the Lambert facility housed in Edison Bell's factory in Euston Square, London. As Starkton says the Brit company was formed by Lambert of Chicago with UK management by one Morris Greenberg to exploit the Lambert licences in the UK and all British territories except Canada. These rights passed to General Phonograph (makers of White cylinders) once that company bought the distressed Brit Lambert assets when it folded in early 1906. National Phonograph bought these rights when General folded in 1908, clearing the way for the blue Amberol.

Hope this helps

[Starkton]

All Brit Lamberts were produced in the Lambert facility housed in Edison Bell's factory in Euston Square, London.

Frank Andrews wrote something different: "In June, 1905, a new [cylinder] factory [of the Lambert Co. Ltd.] at Globe Road, Bow, London E., came into production."

Here is a picture of the title ring. Does the layout of the inscription differ in any way from your black cylinders?

[gramophoneshane]

I think this is an ad for Edison Bells Lambert cylinders.

[Starkton]

I think this is an ad for Edison Bells Lambert cylinders.

This is an ad for the Edison Bell "Indestructible Record". From 1903 it was manufactured at Edisonia Ltd.'s works at 26, Euston Building with the assistance of the Lambert Co.

It must be separated from Lambert's own products: "Lambert Permanent Record", "The Rex" and "Imperial Record"

[RefSeries]

"In June, 1905, a new [cylinder] factory [of the Lambert Co. Ltd.] at Globe Road, Bow, London E., came into production."

The standard sized records were produced in the Lambert facility located in Edison Bell's Euston Square factory using plant installed by William Messer after he had worked on the Edison Bell indestructible machines. The first Edison Bell brown indestructibles were launched in April 1903 and the import of the pink Chicago made stock stopped. Edison Bell changed to black celluloid in June 1903.

I do not know precisely when Lambert production started but Company was formed in April 1904 and they issued a catalogue in August of that year, Edison Bell winding down their indestructible production from about that time. I do not know how much Lambert production came from Globe Row in Bow but it can't have been much, as no new British titles were recorded for the standard range after June 1905. It would have been sensible to make the Imperials launched in the August at the same place as the standard Lamberts as the construction is more or less the same, but Frank Andrews also writes that in July the Company had announced that the Imperials were 'nearly ready' and were being made at the Bow factory. At the end of August the Company announced that it was going into voluntary liquidation, so it is unlikely that the reported Bow capacity of 100-120,000 cylinders a week was ever reached.

The Rex wax range was launched in the July, so maybe they came from Globe Row as well. Not that it indicates anything but they use boxes very similar to the Imperials. I have looked through the Company files in the National Archive but this focuses on corporate governance stuff - there is virtually no commercial information and doesn't help find out the deployment of factory capacity. However I am seeing Frank in a couple of weeks and will ask him and report back.

Here is a picture of the title ring. Does the layout of the inscription differ in any way from your black cylinders?

Your magnificent red Imperial looks the same as the black ones:



By the way, we are doing the next edition of the Reference Series Cylinder Hnadbook - would you be prepared to give your kind permission for the picture of your red Imperial to be used, with normal acknowledgement? Given their rarity it would be of interest to many. If you want to get in touch directly please use [email protected].

Regards

[NEFaurora]

Hmm, I wonder if you could play this on an Edison Business machine with the right reproducer or Ediphone machine since they have 6 inch mandrels.

They run at different RPM's Don't they? - than 4 inch Regular edisons

Anyone know??

Great question!!

[HisMastersVoice]

Hmm, I wonder if you could play this on an Edison Business machine with the right reproducer or Ediphone machine since they have 6 inch mandrels.

They run at different RPM's Don't they? - than 4 inch Regular edisons

Anyone know??

Great question!!

As far as I am aware, the Ediphone and other machines marketed toward business use would not work. The feed screw has a different thread pitch than entertainment machines and would cause the stylus to mis-track.

[gramophoneshane]

Yep, ordinary 2 minute cylinders are 100 threads per inch. 4minute cylinders were 200 TPI & Edisons business machines run at 150TPI.
I think you're pretty much restricted to a Columbia BF/BG or one of the 3 Edison Bell Imperial machines to play these.

[Sansenoi]

That's a nice looking cylinder.

Maybe one of the reasons celluloid is hard to come by, other than lower production quantity, is that it is highly flammable. A spark can set it smoldering. Celluloid factories were notorious for catching fire and celluloid itself is only a needle skip away from being guncotton, chemically.

Also, when celluloid decomposes it causes metal around it to rust at a faster rate so perhaps old celluloid cylinders left on machines in the past for long periods caused them to rust the machine. Maybe the cylinders were broken trying to remove them.

Just my conjecture and probably wrong at that though.