HMV 101 and 102

[briankeith]

I have a cousin living over the big river in the UK. He too is a collector of talking machines and wants to sell me his two HMV portables both black models with beautiful wood motorboards. One is a model 101 and the other is a model 102. Considering his generous offer on these two, BUT looking at the very high shipping and insurance cost, which is the better buy, the model 101 or the model 102? Both are the black models in near mint state, nice working condition. (another reason why shipping these makes me nervous)

[CarlosV]

Both are nice portable machines, the 102 is the successor of the 101. The 102 has the aluminum diaphragm HMV 5a soundbox, while the 101 uses mica (HMV 4, the English twin of the Victor 4). The other difference is the auto brake on the 102, which is not on the 101. The horns are comparable, and to my ears both sound good when playing acoustically and electrically recorded discs up to the 30s. The 102 has a more even response spectrum-wise, probably due to the more modern soundbox (a simplified version of the orthophonic). Please note that both have cardboard cases (wood is only used in the internal board).

[beaumonde]

Ask your cousin if his 102 has the #16, 5A, or 5B soundbox. The latter two are generally preferable to the earlier 16, as that one cannot be opened for repair or restoration.

I have the 101, and it does have an automatic brake triggered by an eccentric groove. The 102's is more sophisticated, working on any record, but I've found it to be finicky and easy to go out of whack.

The No. 4 soundbox on the 101 is excellent when properly restored, not inferior really to the 5A or 5B!

[bart1927]

Ask your cousin if his 102 has the #16, 5A, or 5B soundbox. The latter two are generally preferable to the earlier 16, as that one cannot be opened for repair or restoration.

I have the 101, and it does have an automatic brake triggered by an eccentric groove. The 102's is more sophisticated, working on any record, but I've found it to be finicky and easy to go out of whack.

The No. 4 soundbox on the 101 is excellent when properly restored, not inferior really to the 5A or 5B!

Most 101's don't have an autobrake. Only the latest model of the 101, from, I believe around 1931 has an autobrake. This one unfortunately also has a potmetal soundbox, while most earlier 101's have brass soundboxes.

There were 2 (?) different autobrakes that have been used on the 102. The first one didn't work that well, apparently, the 2nd one functions trouble free.

[briankeith]

I will ask him. He also has a HMV model 99 portable he wants to sell me, like the one currently on EBay but in much better cosmetic condition.

[AZ*]

Performance wise, many people prefer the 102. But appearance wise, I prefer the 101.

[syncopeter]

Having owned both, I would go for the 101. It is built just that little bit better, sounds great with a restored no. 4 soundbox and looks marvelous. The 102 may be more modern, but I've never liked the dumpy look of it.
But both are superb machines, outperforming most cabinet models.

[bart1927]

Having owned both, I would go for the 101. It is built just that little bit better, sounds great with a restored no. 4 soundbox and looks marvelous. The 102 may be more modern, but I've never liked the dumpy look of it.
But both are superb machines, outperforming most cabinet models.

It also depends on what kind of records you are planning to play on it. Most records past 1935 will sound better on the 102, especially late 78's will be far too loud for the 101.

[GMEMG]

My Old Friend "The Squire" has a useful rule: "You need a machine for each decade of recording"

thus to agree with Bart - why not have both - the 101 will be matchless for Pre - electric records (And others) but the 102 with be faultless with most electrically recorded 78's

But do make sure that whomever packs them does so properly - in a double wall box at least ⅓ larger than the machine with sheet polystyrene 1" thick all round to protect them - don't ever economise on packing

otherwise you might as well throw them off the aeroplane on the way over.

[Steve E.]

I have both, and I really love both. I agree that the 101 is a classy looking number. Are they a little less common?

Some things to consider. This is all from memory....please correct me if I am wrong.

HMV 101:

There are variants. The early ones had a front crank. Those, I believe, are rarer. I don't know, though, that they are as "good." Indeed, the autobrake is in the later ones. That's rarer, too.

The 101 has a cute little pull-out "shelf" in the top that stores a few records.

The No.4 soundbox has rubber gaskets. These WILL have hardened, reducing the quality and loudness of the sound. If your No.4 soundbox is made of brass, you are in luck and can take it apart relatively easily to replace the gaskets. The later ones are pot metal and have a habit of shattering during this process. This is the problem with these. Look around here...there are some decent threads on this topic.

HMV 102: This is a classic and classy machine. I have a 1931 and a 1939. They made them for a VERY long time: from around 1931 to around 1960. This is because they were awesomely designed from a utilitarian/audio perspective. There was not much left to improve.

If they have a No. 5a or No. 5b soundbox, they can sound astonishingly good. A LOT of bass! LOUD. (I rarely use "loud" needles in them). Because the gaskets are felt, they don't generally even need much (or any) fixing up.

The No. 16 soundbox is not good at all anymore. I don't understand any thread that raves about them. I just cut one apart for the heck of it (consciously destroying it in the process) and I was shocked at how cheap the design was. As others have said, their hardened rubber gaskets cannot be repaired. Mine also had corrosion holes in the very thin diaphragm. (Which, of course, contributed greatly to the bad sound on mine...maybe some work better.) They came with the earliest machines....I think I read recently that backstock of them also showed up on some later machines.

The "bad" autobrake is only on the earliest 102 machines, from around 1931. It's still OK, though. I got mine to work just fine. (They were soon able to use a more reliable brake design when they merged with Columbia, shortly after the machine was first manufactured.)

When considering the prices of these machines, the soundboxes are a big deal. You will want a Brass No. 4 for the 101, and a 5a or 5b for the 102. If you need to replace these, you are looking at spending some extra dough. At least $80 for the No. 4 (if you are lucky) and over $100 for a #5A or #5B.

102's stored about 12-15 (?) records in an optional, funny-looking tray that sat on the turntable. If you want one, and the 102 in question does not already have one, expect to spend some extra money. (I always wonder what you are supposed to do if you aren't storing the exact number of records that can fit in the tray....stuff it with a rag? You don't want records jiggling in that thing!)

Sometimes you can tell the year of later HMV gramophones by looking at the serial number plaque, generally located under the turntable. If it shows what appears to be a fraction with "B" on the top, that tells you how many years after 1936 it was produced. So, for example, "B/5" means 1936+5 = 1941. I have an HMV 94 that says "B/14" which means it's from 1950.

That's all that comes to mind. If you intend only to ever have one machine and you want the best possible sound, I'd say the 102. But the 101 has a lot of magic to it, looks gorgeous, and is probably a less common machine. (I think they made them for 5 years instead of 29.)

OK! A final thing....I don't know what colors the 101 came in....but once in a while you'll see 102s in some crazy hot colors. They go for a bit more, usually. I don't have one. I think they look really cool.