Newbie Help Identifying Columbia and Victor Machines

[maverick]

Hi guys, first time newbie poster here, so bare with me. I am looking to get a gramophone as a gift for someone, and have no background knowledge or information on the subject. I have looked for local machines for sale, and though they are hard to come by, I have found two that interest me (One is a Victor model, and the other a Columbia). I am looking to get an "original" horn-model machine. As I have no background on the subject, what I am looking for is some direction as to whether the machines are original and what I should be looking to pay for either model.

Here are the machines in question:

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z337693336

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z352093201

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[dennman6]

Your first link is a real Columbia Disc Graphophone, an entry level model but genuine. Your second link is a fake-do NOT consider it! The Exhibition reproducer(needle head) is genuine, but the cabinet is from a later tabletop model which didn't have an external horn, only an internal one. If you look closely where the lousy decal is, you can tell it was pasted over two doors which would've been opened to control the sound volume. That is what the vertical line behind the middle of the decal indicates. Also, you'll notice two small holes in the middle of the doors. That's where the pull knobs originally were. And the back bracket holding the tonearm(which itself also looks like a genuine Victor or HMV piece)looks like a Columbia bracket. That bracket & that brake & that crank never came off any Victor, HMV, or Columbia machine. The horn is a crude & cheap replica, poorly made. The seller mentions he isn't "sure whether this is an original or a replica" & says "This is supposedly a Victor...". I think he knows very well the whole thing is a fake. Not worth $750, maybe worth $50 as a prop machine or display item. There now, I've just inspected it for you & I'm not even a professional:) If you want to get your friend a genuine gramophone right away, go for the Columbia. Otherwise wait for a nice Victor or HMV model to come up. As to the pricing, I'm in the USA so you would need others to chime in for value in your local area.

[Uncle Vanya]

The "Victor" machine is a fake, amd a poor one at that.

The Columbia machine appears to be a "Bijou" , a rather scarce, very late open horn machine dating to betwen 1912 and 1916.

Wile scarce, attractive, and interesting as a very late example of its kind, it is not highly sought after, as it is not prepossessing and can be underpowered if the motor is not in tip-top condition.

in the current market, I would think that $950 Canadian was very long money for tis machine, as it was rather cheap when new, and cColumbia machines just ton't seem to excite the general run of collector. I would find $650-750 Canadian to be a more comfortable price.

I see that Mr. Herman beat me to my post, which took five attempts before success.

[maverick]

Thanks for the input guys! I suppose the Victor one is now out of the question, while the Columbia one is a bit of a stretch for me price wise for what it is. I will continue to keep an eye open and hopefully something else will pop up. Shame they don't come up very often though. I'll be sure to get your input when I do find something