Victor XXV Schoolhouse on Ebay

[solophoneman]

You don't see these come up for sale very often. An original Victor Schoolhouse Model first introduced in 1913.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Victor-Phonograph-T ... 2|294%3A50

[MordEth]

Nice find. I’m still not knowledgeable enough to be able to determine if it’s worth that price, but it looks to be in very good condition from the photographs.

Here’s a link to it on the Victor-Victrola page, for anyone interested.

— MordEth

[hr][/hr]

eBay Item #290303008316

Victor Phonograph Talking Machine Pat. 1904 Very NICE!!

Victor Talking Machine Company. MV-XXV 7580B Pat. 1904. School house machine. Horn has been restored and is very nice. Cabinet may have been refinished and is nice. In working condition. Looks to be complete. Sorry, not shippable must be picked up.

[Zeppy]

If I had the money I'd consider it, but I'd warn anyone, there appear to be a few non-original alterations.

First, it appears to be the wrong horn or the wrong elbow. They just don't fit togther...the second, it seems to have the wrong motor. Evidence of that is the the extra piece of wood rather an escutheon (I can never spell that word). Also, the style of the crank, is typically that of a male crank, whereas this model should have a female. My guess is they didn't have the correct motor, and made a later motor "fit" by repositioning the crank hole, and covering the area around it.

[Steve]

Yeah, my concerns exactly, although it appears to have the 32 motor inside it which is curious. What motor SHOULD a schools model have? I would have said (guessed) this motor but as I've never seen one, I honestly don't know!

And why doesn't that horn fit correctly? Again, you would think it SHOULD fit okay but as Zeppy says, it doesn't. Any "school masters" want to share their knowledge with us?

[solophoneman]

How sad that someone obviously attempted to alter this rare beauty with the wrong parts rather than seek them out. Why alter and mutilate part of the cabinet when there are suppliers and other collectors out there who could assist you with finding the correct parts to make this as close to original as possible.Probably done by a non-collector self anointed handyman who found it and went at it all alone. Now it is a discredited, altered Schoolhouse, rather than an original that has been properly restored to its once proud state.

[Zeppy]

Yeah, my concerns exactly, although it appears to have the 32 motor inside it which is curious. What motor SHOULD a schools model have? I would have said (guessed) this motor but as I've never seen one, I honestly don't know!

And why doesn't that horn fit correctly? Again, you would think it SHOULD fit okay but as Zeppy says, it doesn't. Any "school masters" want to share their knowledge with us?

I don't have the Victor Data book handy, but in a prior thread, someone asked the same question. It basically should have an early version of the same motor. I posted a picture of a recent ebay auction that had the proper motor. http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... ?f=2&t=930 Not sure how much the configuration changed, but I'm guessing it was enough to justify the make shift cover for an enlarged winding key opening they then had to cover.

In the current economy, I'm just not sure the price is reduced enough to cover the horn, motor, patch, and refinishing issues.

Drop another grand, and I probably would snatch it up.

[Phonolair]

And why doesn't that horn fit correctly? Again, you would think it SHOULD fit okay but as Zeppy says, it doesn't.

There were two sizes of elbows and brackets for the Schoolhouse. The earlier one being the smaller of the two and it took a regular Victor wood horn(speartip). The later one has a bigger elbow to take the larger metal end on the later smooth side Schoolhouse horn.
What we have here is a small early bracket, tonearm and elbow. And the later bigger metal end Schoolhouse horn. Although they don't fit together somehow they have them fasten onto each other.
I think for the money you could find a nice correct, unmolested one.

Best Regards, Larry

[Steve]

Ah, that's interesting - thanks, Larry, for the confirmation of the different horn sizes / elbows etc.

Zeppy, the correct motor isn't what I'd call a "No. 32". The correct one appears to be the early 2-spring spiral drive type. The "32" is the later double-spring Victor produced with the single deep spring barrel and that is what the current Ebay Schoolhouse model has been re-motored with apparently.

Is it possible that this was an "honest" contemporary repair though rather than a later collector "quick fix" born out of ignorance?

I mean surely, the "32" was the successor to the original motor and available from 1915 (?) onwards so if the motor had become defunct, couldn't they have legitimately replaced it with the then "new" motor of similar spec.?

I know it makes it worth a lot less as a machine today though.

[MordEth]

Is it possible that this was an "honest" contemporary repair though rather than a later collector "quick fix" born out of ignorance?

John and I discussed this machine a bit late last night, and he observed that he thought the escutcheon¹ replacement appeared to be metal, painted to look like wood, and I think that he is quite probably correct.

This sort of repair would have been more common circa when the replacement motor was made, wouldn’t it?

— MordEth

¹ FYI, this is the correct spelling. If you’re using the current version of Firefox, it offers spell-check, and you can right-click any word it thinks is spelled incorrectly (underlined in red) to have it offer suggestions for the correct spelling.

[Steve]

John and I discussed this machine a bit late last night, and he observed that he thought the escutcheon¹ replacement appeared to be metal, painted to look like wood, and I think that he is quite probably correct.

Hats off to both of you! It appears you could well be right in which case my idea of it being "contemporary" isn't so strange, perhaps? It doesn't look like a recent collector's botch to me but who knows for sure?.......

It would nevertheless affect the value of the machine considerably either way but from a historical POV, it doesn't actually make the machine too unattractive. Retro-fitting of motors was commonplace as and when the early examples gave out and new "improved" types came along to replace them. I should imagine the school model got a "lot of stick" too! So this is just a part of its history.