Victrola VV 4-70 reproducer + arm

[muffinass]

I've gotten a lead on another gramophone - this one not so local, but I think worth the long trip if it turns out to be in such excellent shape.

My only worry about this model (Victrola VV 4-70) is for the reproducer and tone-arm to be made out of pot-metal instead of brass.

Can anyone tell from the picture below if it is indeed brass or pot-metal?

Also, what should I be looking for when I go up to take a closer look at the gramophone?

Thanks in advance!

[Victrolaman]

Pot metal, thats a later machine after 1926, i can tell by the logo inside the lid, plus the early brass ones had a lower round tone arm support not this type with the pin.
Still You may get lucky that the pot metal isnt cracked or swollen. The tone arm support from the pic looks ok, i cant tell the reproducer. the machine looks very clean and was in a good enviroment.
You dont see the 4-70 often id go get it if it were me

[Victrolaman]

Also when you go look at the machine, the first thing i check is the spring, crank it slowly if you get tension and then it stops the springs are good, if you stand there and wind forever with no tension its broke. i always check for loose veneer, missing or broken piecs. make sure the tone arm support isnt cracked or broke, they usually break right where that support pin and set screw is.

And always ask do any records come with it lol. I say this because over the years of buying and collectijng these i have found some pretty nice records that the seller alot of the time doesnt offer or think you'd be interested in those.
Hope this helps
Keep us all posted if you get it

[muffinass]

Thanks Victrolaman!
(it sounds like Bart auditioning for the role of Fallout Boy)

It would be my first upright gramophone and thus I want to make sure I'm investing the money wisely. What are the chances of the pot-metal cracking while in my possession? What I mean to ask is if it would be a smart purchase considering the tendency of pot-metal to crack (thus rendering the gramophone useless since parts are quite rare for this model, no?).

Could it be fitted with a brass tone-arm and reproducer at a later date?

Pot metal, thats a later machine after 1926, i can tell by the logo inside the lid, plus the early brass ones had a lower round tone arm support not this type with the pin.
Still You may get lucky that the pot metal isnt cracked or swollen. The tone arm support from the pic looks ok, i cant tell the reproducer. the machine looks very clean and was in a good enviroment.
You dont see the 4-70 often id go get it if it were me

[muffinass]

...something I didn't add earlier:

The VV 4-70 is quite far away - about 2400km - but it's at a steal of a price...$275 CAD. (it also comes with some records)

I would have, locally, a VV 4-7 that seems to be in a similar condition (cabinet looks to be almost perfect) but since it comes with 300-something records, it's priced at $650 CAD. (I'm sure any of the prices can be negociated)

According to the picture of the VV 4-7, is the reproducer & tone-arm brass?

Which model is worth pursuing?

[gramophone78]

I'm not sure where you are up here in Canada. However, I would not drive 2400km's for anything you show there and it would have to be a extremely rare machine to even consider such a thing. Neither the prices you listed are low. They just seem to be standard CL prices...IMO. Both have brass arms and pot metal reproducers. Neither is a good investment....IMHO.

[muffinass]

I'm not sure where you are up here in Canada. However, I would not drive 2400km's for anything you show there and it would have to be a extremely rare machine to even consider such a thing. Neither the prices you listed are low. They just seem to be standard CL prices...IMO. Both have brass arms and pot metal reproducers. Neither is a good investment....IMHO.

Points taken into consideration...I live in Toronto, which would assume that one would have a much larger array of options to choose from.

If you don't mind, what would you consider a good investment? (primarily judging from the uprights available on Kijiji)

I looked at the VV 4-70 mostly because I liked the cabinet detailing and its condition.
Same goes for the VV 4-7, although that is entirely out of my price range.

[Victrolaman]

Look I drove to Vermont once just for maple surup my point is if you want it go get it, because there will always be that feeling of geesh I wish I got that when I could. If you can't afford both machines I'd get the 4-70.
As far as the tone arm support breaking once you get it, who knows it could, my 8-12 tone arm support is pot metal and it is still like new, and I use it weekly.
Just be gentle with it and I'm sure it will be fine. If it breaks eBay has them and they make a brass one that's a reproduction and it will never break but they are about 200 for those.

If it was me I'd go get the 4-70, call the other guy up and make a small offer get that and all those records. Who knows what's in there for gems. I found some of the rarest records I own when buying machines.

If the reproducer is cracked and swollen then chances are you can't restore it, but sometimes if it's not to bad you can.

Now go get that machine before someone else does and enjoy it!

[gramophone78]

Well, I'm on the West Coast and there are machines that come up all the time. Last night a Sonora "art case" that was free for the taking. My point is, you live in Toronto and there are tons of machines at come up. If either of these two models are what you like and wish to have.....then, wait for one closer to home. Say.....1000km's..... . Uprights, unless very rare do not climb too fast in value. In fact, most have gone way down in the last few years. However, you should not just look at this as "investment" but, rather what you like and at a fair price. Victrolaman seems to think you should drive 2400km's to get a machine that is IMO not a big deal. Maybe gas is far less in the US. Also Canadian machines are not as sought after buy US collectors. Take all this for what it's worth.
I would pass on the drive and wait for a better importunity to come along.

[penman]

I agree with gramophone78. The numbers just don't add up for this type of upright. Even assuming the actual price of the machine is OK. By my calculation the cost of gas alone for the round trip is about $500. While it's also true that you always remember the "one that got away" I don't think this machine falls into that class. There are far more good uprights out there than most people realize, so unless it's the most extraordinary 4-70 out there, wait, there will be many others much closer. Just my opinion.