Did Edison help or hurt himself?

[Jerry B.]

I was looking through the thread where people submit information on their Triumphs and was surprised to read that Model A machines ran to about half way through Triumph production. The highest Model A was about 44,xxx and the latest Triumph was a little over 90,000. I realize that George is early in his accumulation of data but it appears that about half of all Triumphs are Model A or Spring Motor machines. I expected that peak sales peaked sometime after four minute cylinders were introduced with the D series machines. When was the peak of cylinder machine production? Why did Edison lose market share? Jerry Blais

[Lenoirstreetguy]

I think I've read that the peak of the phonograph division in total business was in 1906-07 just prior to the recession of 1908.( We're speaking of pre-Diamond Disc era) The Edison company shot themselves in the foot in many ways. The wax Amberol, which initially caused a their business to surge, soon became a bust when the public realized that the new records were excessively prone to wear. The Edison group was hissy over the fact that they lost the court battle to Lambert for the used of celluloid as a record surface. Sure, it was a blatantly unfair decision, but instead of licking their wounds, accepting fate and buying the rights they chose to use a harder wax. It worked well for two minute records, but it ultimately didn't make the grade with the four minute grooving. Just about this time the National Phonograph Company demanded that their dealers carry Edison records exclusively( in the cylinder line.) This I think was a mistake. In a similar fashion the Edison legal department went gunning for the U.S. Everlasting company leading to its demise. It seems to me that this sort of thing depressed the cylinder business in general rather than giving the Edison line a commercial advantage. Like the smart phone business today; RIM was reluctant to share their coding with the app developers preferring to do their own. Instead of increasing their business it made everyone reluctant to buy a Blackberry.
By the time Edison threw in the towel , bought the celluloid rights and introduced the Blue Amberol the cylinder business had declined alarmingly. US Everlasting was gone..or soon would be,... Columbia had discontinued their cylinder line, and Indestructible , without Columbia to back them, was increasingly a minor player.
I've always thought that had the Blue Amberol been introduced in 1908 instead of the wax Amberol , the story would have been quite different.

Jim

[Edisone]

That is an excellent & very thoughtful recount of cylinder history!

[syncopeter]

Like RIM and so many other companies that introduce break through technology Edison had trouble uprgrading (or downgrading) to the market standards. Philips had the same problem with their V2000 video system. Far superior to VHS and Betamax, offering 2x 4 hours per tape, but finished within 2 years because of huge losses.
Edison records, both cylinders and discs, were technically way better than anything made by competitors, but needed Edison machines to play them on. And that exclusivity almost always kills a company.

[edisonphonoworks]

It is too bad that Edison did not purchase a license for the celluloid, I think it would have changed things. I can honestly say Edison's technicians were way above quality of anyone, however Even I avoid the wax Amberol record as much as possible, they are very fragile, even walking from one room to another can break them. On the positive side, I have never seen a moldy wax Amberol! Honestly though these are the one records I know nothing about the composition. I have yet to run into documentation on the composition of them , and maybe it is just so, why make ,more of that that lemon wax. For us rube folks, (lived on a rural area all my life.) Edison's cylinders have some good arrangements, I like them better than the Columbia and Victor arrangements. I wonder if Edison would have not been bent on song than artist if he had singed Caruso, instead of Victor, would of that put things ahead? I like many arrangements on Diamond Disc, the popular, ragtime, and comedy, but many of the pedestrian stuff is pretty dull, and sometimes weird. I though like the Edison Dance records, the way they jump at you with the showing off of the percussion section, is certainly enjoyable. I also more like on the Blue Amberol the sound of the direct masters, the pre 1914 ones are so crisp and clear, like Alexander's Ragtime band, and the clearness of Everyone is at home except your wife, are very good examples of what cylinder recording can do, they are a nice volume and a very realistic sound, in the next room it really sounds like a band playing.

[epigramophone]

There is a well known story which, if true, perfectly illustrates the opportunities which were missed when Thomas Edison's own musical preferences controlled the recorded repertoire.

In September 1912 the company's London manager visited the legendary tenor Jean de Reszke in Paris, to demonstrate the superiority of the Edison product and to suggest a recording session.

The meeting allegedly went so well that de Reszke wrote to Edison indicating his willingness to record, but inexplicably Edison is said to have written "no answer" on the letter.

Thus all we have left of this great tenor are a few fragments on Mapleson cylinders, with the tantalising but unfulfilled promise of a couple of Fonotipias.

[Lucius1958]

On the positive side, I have never seen a moldy wax Amberol!

Neither have I...

[Edisone]

....opportunities which were missed when Thomas Edison's own musical preferences controlled the recorded repertoire.


Thus all we have left of this great tenor....

Interesting story, but I cannot agree with the "thus" statement, which blames Edison for the lack of JdR records. Jean de R could have recorded for any number of companies, but did not. TAE certainly didn't stop him from making records for another company. That was Jean's decision.

[Valecnik]

On the positive side, I have never seen a moldy wax Amberol!

Neither have I...

And if you find a really clean undamaged record, the sound quality is excellent, very close to the standard of a directly recorded Blue Amberol.

I've got some of the same titles on 4 min wax and BA and it's truly difficult to tell the difference.

[Wolfe]

There is a well known story which, if true, perfectly illustrates the opportunities which were missed when Thomas Edison's own musical preferences controlled the recorded repertoire.

In September 1912 the company's London manager visited the legendary tenor Jean de Reszke in Paris, to demonstrate the superiority of the Edison product and to suggest a recording session.

The meeting allegedly went so well that de Reszke wrote to Edison indicating his willingness to record, but inexplicably Edison is said to have written "no answer" on the letter.

Thus all we have left of this great tenor are a few fragments on Mapleson cylinders, with the tantalising but unfulfilled promise of a couple of Fonotipias.

I don't believe that at all. By 1912 De Reszke was well retired, and wouldn't have needed Edison over any other company, should he have truly wished to record.