Question about recoton needles

[Victrolaman]

I just bought a 1939 magnavox it has the electric pick up head but uses the steel needles. Had many tuns of new needles some are chrominum? And the others are the recoton ones. They say one needle can be used up to 10 times and the chrominum ones more?
What's your opinion on these? Would make sense since having a record changer it would be a pain to keep changing needles. Let me know wha you know about thes

[gregbogantz]

A 1939 vintage Magnavox with a record changer probably means that the changer is a Webster Electric (Webcor). Most of the changers of this vintage used crystal cartridges that tracked in the 35 - 50 gram range. Billed as "featherweight" in the advertising propaganda of the day - tee hee. And most of those cartridges are now dead. So you'll first probably have to replace or rebuild the cartridge.

Record players of this vintage are among the most damaging to records ever made. You may have noticed that your records from the 1930s are noisier and more worn-out sounding than even those from the teens and 20s. The problem was that the tracking force was too high at 35 - 50 grams to use a hard jewel-tipped stylus without damaging the records when the stylus was new. Those players that would not accept a steel needle are among the most damaging. Those players that had an early-style needle chuck could be fitted with steel needles and this is probably the best bet. At this tracking force, you can probably get maybe 5 - 10 plays from a steel needle and it won't damage the records as much as an osmium or sapphire tip. If your player accepts only jewel-tip needles or you want to use a hard-tip needle, I would recommend "forming" the tip by playing several junk records before you play anything that you value with it. This will form some flats on the needle tip that will spread out the tracking force on the groove walls and reduce the pressure and thereby reduce record wear. Once you form the tip, you should not change the needle until it's worn out. Or else you'll have to reform it if you remove and then replace it.

A better solution would be to use a more modern pickup cartridge that tracks at 10 grams or less, but this is often not possible in players of this vintage. Most of these players have poor tonearm bearings and/or stiff trip linkages (in the record changers) that require the high tracking forces just to move the tonearm reliably across the record. Also, a more modern cartridge probably doesn't put out as much voltage as the original, so you won't get as much loudness with them.

In short, record players of the 1930s thru the WWII period are pretty good record grinders and pretty poor record players. I have several of them, but they are mostly for "show and tell". A few that I like a lot and want to actually use I have re-engineered to have much better tonearm bearings and light trip linkages so that I can run modern cartridges in them at 10 grams or less tracking force. Then I either live with the reduced loudness of the new cart or I add a stage of amplifier gain to make up the difference.

So I don't have a really cheap and easy recommendation for you. Machines of this vintage are just hell on records. Use steel needles if you can. If you can't use steel, then either play junk records on one of these machines that's in original condition or re-design it to be able to use a more modern pickup.

[epigramophone]

I have always been sceptical about the claims for so called "Long Playing" needles, some of which claimed to play up to 60 sides.

Unless the user kept notes (most unlikely) it would be impossible to remember how many sides had been played in a session, and by the time the sound quality deteriorated the damage would already have been done.

[Henry]

If you're talking Victrola and similar, I would avoid any such needles (styli) like the plague! They will certainly destroy records in short order. Stick to steel needles. I threw away the one "sapphire" stylus I had (gosh knows what it really was!) and use soft-tone steel exclusively.

[Victrolaman]

Hi guys,
Upon further looking,mthe changer has a regular electric cartridge with needle stylus,mnot the steel ones. They just came with it when I bought it. The vol still plays good and loud and clear so I lucked out. I'm not sure but it could be a magnetic cartridge. The changer is one unlike I even seen. It's a garrard model rc-50. Has the biggest electric motor I ever seen in a phonograph. I will post some pics of it. But it took me three hours to disassemble and clean and relube it and put it back together again.
I have no idea why he had the needles maybe they have a crank phonograph at one time. But I agree. Just use the needle to play one record and that's it. Not worth taking the chance

[gregbogantz]

Yep, Garrard was the other possibility for a prewar Magnavox record changer. Magnavox was apparently the importer to the USA of the Garrard models in the pre-WWII period. The prewar Garrard models are listed under the Magnavox brand in the prewar Rider's Perpetual Troubleshooters Manuals. I think the RC-60 was the first postwar Garrard, so the lower numbers were probably all prewar models. The RC-30 is almost identical to the RC-60, so the 60 was probably just a restoration of production of prewar models after the war. Garrards of this period were offered with both magnetic and crystal cartridges, so it's possible that you have a magnetic type in your Magnavox. Which is probably why yours still works. The magnetics still tracked at pretty high forces, so I would recommend using steel needles with it.

[Victrolaman]

Hi Greg

This one has a regular stylus needle on it not the steel type
I didn't know they had magnetic cartridges in 1939 learned something today thanks lol

[gramophoneshane]

Magnetic cartridges were being used before crystal cartridges.
The Garrard RC-50 was introduced in 1939 AFAIK, and was the first model to use the arm over spindle arrangement. The headshell could be rotated 180 degrees for easy needle changing, and both the original magnetic & crystal cartridges had a thumb screw & were designed to accept shank needles.
If yours has a jewel tipped stylus attaced to the cartridge, then it's been modified at some point. That's not necessarily a bad thing as it should track lighter, although I've never found any of my Garrard pick-ups with the old style magnetic cartridges to cause any record wear, provided the rubber components have been replace.
I've found this type of changer to work very well, but I would recommend putting new rubber sleeves on the 2 tips of the over-arm as it will help prevent to top disc moving & multiple records dropping at the same time.
The biggest problem with these is the bent spindle because they can chip & chew out the spindle hole in records over time. Make sure you spindle is clean & perfectly smooth with no corrosion, so there's nothing to catch on the edge of the record hole as it drops, otherwise it's best to have your spindle replated.
Will you still be posting photos of your changer?

[Victrolaman]

Geesh Shane thank you !
All good info to know, i took the changer apart, cleaned and oiled it, it didnt run at all when i got it, just bairly.
Now its smooth and plays but it is stuck on wanting to play 12" not 10"? so what do i need to do, if you lived closer id send it to you and have to adjust it and pay ya.
This thing has the biggest motor i ever seen i bad the whole changer weighs close to 25 lbs give or take.
There is no thumb screw on mine or not even a hol where it would have went, just a huge looking shell with a large flat looking cartridge under it and a little needle. I did do as you said and i polished the spindle so thats shiny.
You would happen to have the Sams or service manual you can email me would you?
Because if it was able to know 12" and 10" and not be stuck on 12 it would be working perfect. Plus the tone arm goes over but wont set down on the needle just stays there, there is a thumb screw in the back if you loosen it, the tone arm drops to low and has lots of play?
I have never owned one like this Shane so any help from you id be greatful