Brown Wax Cylinder find!

[Edisone]

Given the large sales of Edison cylinders from 1898 to the start of the Gold-Moulded era, I think it's reasonable to believe the statement (in a court case - I will hafta find it again) that over 1,000 METAL masters had been made & used to pantograph duplicates, before the introduction of actual moulded copies.

I believe (just based on reason - something durable was needed) that Pathé also used metal masters, not wax, to produce the many different sizes of cylinder & disc from the same originals.

ps: I have a set of Edison 'language' brown-wax records, in original boxes & wrapped in lovely cottonfluff paper... and totally destroyed by mold/mildew/whatever. Nice boxes, though!

[edisonphonoworks]

Does any of of you have these metal duplicating cylinders, or have seen one in person? Someone once told me they owned an original concert blank mold, from the Texas Phonograph Company., and when I asked if they could send a picture, they did not know where it was, come on something as significant as an original blank concert mold would be the prize of a collection. And also to my knowledge the only blank makers around 1900 was Edison, Columbia and Pathé, maybe Norcross the formula even then was still kind of a trade secret. Were Bettinni records made on Edison blanks? I would think so or Edison would of sued him. The molds at Wild West Town, I don't think the brown wax ones are genuine, they do not have a spiral core, they are all smooth bore, although the design does work very well for smooth bore cylinders, however the handles for the cores are made from the pull on old fire extinguisher handles, which is not right. The gold molded and Amberol molds, however are the real deal. I think the blank molds are ones CF made for himself in the 20s or 30s, as that is when the handles seem to date from. Full original molds with all the parts would be awesome to see. I would think at least one of these positive master cylinders would exsist, maybe they were like the gold cylinder presented to Edison,from the dealers however made of silver and copper?.

[Starkton]

Here is the testimony of Albert F. Wurth, the son of Charles N. Wurth, who entered Edison's laboratory on 20 July 1894 to help his father to make duplicates: http://edison.rutgers.edu/NamesSearch/S ... hDoc=Enter

Concerning concert molds for duplicating Albert Wurth testified as follows:

"Direct Examination by Mr. Dyer [for Complainant].
[...]
70 Q. Does your record contain any entries with reference to concert molds before the word “Concerts”?
A. It contains an entry on the same page under date of May 23, 1899, as “1 A C R Dudley ⅜ ⅜ 5. 5”, which means that the first concert record was plated preparatory to making a mold as an experiment.
71 Q. The first date under the heading “Concerts” is July 6. How many concert molds does your record show were made before that time?
A. The record shows that 4 concert molds were made before that date.
[...]
A. These concert molds were made so as to make duplicates, and these duplicates were used as master records in the cutting duplicating department of the National Phonograph Company.
[...]
76 Q. Before the manufacture of these concert record molds, were any small or regular sized record molds manufactured to produce duplicates for use as masters by the National Phonograph Company in its cutting duplicating plant? [...]
A. Yes, [...] the molds referred to are “Whistling Girl” under date of June 4, 1898, also under date of July 29, 1898, “Whistling Coon,” and August 3, 1898, “Laughing Song.”
[...]
A. [...] [T]hese three records were taken especially by Mr. Miller for us to make molds so that the duplicates could be used as masters in the cutting duplicating department.
[...]”

[edisonphonoworks]

Pretty good stuff Startkton!!!
Indicating molding was worked with to make duplication masters at least as early as 1898! And Frank and Albert certainly were the men of whom which were the key developers of the technology, with usable results although Dr. S.B. certainly started the research in 1888-89 From what is said by these men, is that from the start they had worked on making molded records, the first tests were by Dr. S.B as the groove of the record was square and the sound was like saw tooth shaped gouges on the bottom of the square grooves. The records came out scratched, some stuck to the molds. In fact the earliest experiments they made the molds and tried to use very fine saws and saw the molds in half, also the record surface was one wax that coated where the sound waves were, and backed up with softer waxes on the inside. The circular recording knife, and ball stylus were developed to make records that could be more easily duplicated, but problems were met with the was sticking to the mold, of course the development of the courser feed needed to compensate when the record compound contracts. It is said that they did use the molded method for duplication masters only. Just the thing I find frustrating, is that would would be needed for proving all of this to my knowledge was destroyed at one point.... Did any of these molds survive, I would love to crack these mysteries. I d not know why I like to learn about record making but it is a passion and there is so many missing pieces to the puzzle and I would like to help solve it.

[Edisonfan]

Thanks for the information! That's really cool!