Alternate materials for recording?

[Blimpy]

Has anyone ever tried making their own cylinders out of tinfoil/wax paper/duct tape/aluminum foil/etc. using a normal wax cylinder machine and using them to make recordings? Or even using a tinfoil machine? While the only machine I have at the moment is a 1930's Decca portable that I got on the cheap (works fine for playing 78s, but something like a Edison Standard or a Victor XX-IV would be nice), maybe someone else could give this a go?

[Shawn Borri]

For cylinder blanks tried a variety of materials, and found nothing as good for recording than the aluminated soap mass used in the 1890s. There are three of us who are versed in the alchemy of wax formulations, Paul Morris, myself, and Chuck Richards. A simple formula that works for the non soap chemist is 200 parts stearic acid, 100 parts ceresine and 50 parts carnauba wax! Melt at 300 degrees and pour in the mold.

[phononut]

Well, I have tried! I made records with cd's by getting a length of PVC pipe attached to PVC elbow. I glued paper on 1 end to for the diaphragm and added a strait pin. I shouted in with the needle on the CD moving it along to make grooves slowly. I reset the pipe so it would follow the grooves and it produced an audible recording. I would be interested in cylinde recording though.

Brad

[Shawn Borri]

For cylinders, after many thousands of experiments, that are beyond the can of the imagination of 99.9% of collectors..... There is no better recording media than "brown wax". I have made about two tons of the composition literally, there are only three experts on this compound, myself,Paul Morris, and Chuck Richards. And I will be the first to admit, that making brown wax metallic soap phonograph blanks,is ever changing,the more you make the more questions arise. The temperatures involved is Extreamly dangerous, good batches are cooked to 500 plus degrees. I just found a source of period stearic after all this time, that is bovine based, not palm wax like modern kind. The Improved triple pressed throws all the old percentage numbers off, and decompses faster, causes, streaks and cracks, while the old kind stays in a plastic state longer, and goes through the paces better. I have a few not so technical formula that you may try, contact me by phone (815) 608-0024. I have started a series of in depth articicles "In The Groove" n wax compositions and chemistry.....Shawn Borri.

[Lucius1958]

Well, heavy duty aluminum foil might work on a tinfoil machine; and Edison tried wax paper tape in his earliest experiments.

As for the other possibilities: cylinder phonographs require a fine, smooth surface on which to record - one that is soft enough to engrave cleanly without damaging the stylus, yet hard enough to withstand playback. I don't think duct tape or plastic wrap fit the criteria very well.

It would be interesting, though, to mold blanks out of a suitable type of plastic - something with the thermoplastic character and hardness of celluloid - to record using Lioret's technique (softening the blank in hot water before recording)....

[McTodd]

A simple formula that works for the non soap chemist is 200 parts stearic acid, 100 parts ceresine and 50 parts carnauba wax! Melt at 300 degrees and pour in the mold.

Fascinating stuff, Shawn! I assume this non-soap formula produces softer, less durable (and perhaps noisier for all I know) cylinders than the complex Aylsworth forumla you and Paul Morris manufacture to?

[edisonphonoworks]

It is the formula for the yellow 1888 cylinders, it does wear out quickly about 5 plays, but will not deteriorate much after that, it does have more noise than a regular metallic soap cylinder, If you go to youtube and listen to the 1888 recordings, that is what it sounds like. Shaving is a problem you have to shave very very light passes, or it will ball up and clog your shaving head, but more caranuaba wax. makes it more durable, in fact stearic ceresin and caranauba.make a decent record, it is just that the sponified soap cylinders are much harder and durable.

[McTodd]

As ever, fascinating stuff Shawn, thanks!

[estott]

Thin aluminum discs were used for home recording in the early 20th C. They were about the thickness of heavyweight foil cookware and were pressed with a blank groove. You put them on your home turntable and spoke loudly into the horn - sometimes a cardboard megaphone was supplied. Afterward you played them with a fiber needle. Results were just good enough to send vocal messages.

[AllWoundUp]

I have no idea if this would actually work but there's this stuff called "Sculpey" which is a modeling clay that stays soft until you bake it at 275 degree for 15 minutes.

So... take a cardboard tube that would fit on the mandrel of the cylinder machine and coat it with Sculpey, make the recording, then harden it in the oven.

Like I said... no idea if it would be too soft to record on or durable enough to play after hardened. Or whether it changes size when baked but might be fun to try.