The cylinder market

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Lucius1958
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by Lucius1958 »

True: there may be one or two antique shops (within an hour's drive or so) that have a selection of cylinders; but for the most part, I depend on online auctions, and digging through Ken Woodbury's booth at the Harwinton show....

Bill

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recordo
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by recordo »

I was lucky here in Australia a few years ago when a deceased estate of a collector/hoarder went under the hammer. I bought many hundreds of cylinders. I could have had shelves of 78s at a few dollars per shelf, but couldn't fit them and the cylinders into my car for the 2 hour drive home.

I will only buy indestructible or blue Amberols on ebay now as the last 4 minute wax Amberols I bought (from a so-called 'dealer') hadn't been properly packed and they broke. When I confronted him about that, he said "Oh, yes, they need special wrapping" and I pretty much said that that's what I thought I'd paid him for, so no more purchases from that chap!

I live near a 78 dealer which is handy, and they have a few cylinders ($15 each), but I have so many crates of 78s in my garage that I haven't even gotten to yet, I've pretty much given up on buying anything at the moment.

I've made cylinders for Vulcan and love the fact that they can easily go through the mail.

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epigramophone
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by epigramophone »

I only diversified into cylinders about seven years ago, and only collect Blue Amberols as I own just one cylinder machine, an Amberola 50.

Here in the UK, the cheapest BA's I have found have been at the annual CLPGS Phonofair, where five for GBP£10 is not uncommon. Of course the sought after operatic and dance titles fetch considerably more.

At one of the SAS (Roger Thorne Collection) sales I bought a job lot of 55 BA's for GBP£141.60 including buyer's premium, a little over GBP£2.50 each. Almost all were boxed and many retained their lids.

UK eBay can be an expensive option because of the inflated postage and packing charges demanded by some sellers.

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FellowCollector
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by FellowCollector »

I have always had a fascination with cylinder records and have been fortunate enough to have amassed a very large collection of them over the years. Most of the cylinder phonographs that I have added to my collection have been accompanied by at least 10 to more than 100 cylinders with most being in very good to excellent condition. I have found small groups of brown wax cylinders including a couple of them with the "...at Edison's Laboratory..." in the announcement - one of which is featured on my YouTube channel. As with everyone else I have found hundreds of 2 minute wax cylinders with lots of mold for which I heaved a sigh, tossed out and retained the boxes and lids. One memorable find many years ago was at the home of a collector of many things including automobiles. I was invited by the family to come have a look around about a month before all would go to auction. The large Victorian home was almost full of many antiques but upstairs in almost every walk-in closet were boxes and boxes of cylinders and several cylinder phonographs. I made a generous cash offer on the cylinders and the players which the family accepted and they helped me load all in my minivan. There were well over a thousand cylinders in that one find and I was incredibly pleased at the condition of most. I will never forget that day. Since then it has been just once in a while that I find a few here and there. - Doug

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edisonphonoworks
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by edisonphonoworks »

Thought it would be interesting to share a little on the process of making cylinders. Again for cylinder wax to be made right dangerous temperatures are involved, as well as fire risks, and the fumes are very acrid, making the compound itself, should only be done outside or in a well ventilated area. Cylinders are not beeswax, or paraffin, although there may be a little in some older formulations, it is a metallic aluminum soap, the main ingredient is highly refined beef tallow that the glycerin, olaic acids have been reduced and the principle left is octadecanoic acid, saponified with sodium hydroxide dissolved in water, and aluminum dissolved in that. The whole process of molding forms around the control of the rate of contraction of the compound, lets say if you tried to make wax records using a mold made by encapsulating the wax record in plaster and making the core and outer parts from that, the record would be too short, and also the interior would be so small as to not fit on the phonograph. Molds must be made exaggerated to make good blanks.
Attachments
finished block of brown wax compound
finished block of brown wax compound
Violent foaming and fumes saponification of brown wax compound. Do not try this at home! The wax is up around 500 degrees at this point!
Violent foaming and fumes saponification of brown wax compound. Do not try this at home! The wax is up around 500 degrees at this point!
start of foaming off, adding the aluminum solution to the octadecanoic acid.
start of foaming off, adding the aluminum solution to the octadecanoic acid.
aluminum dissolving in sodium hydroxide solution.
aluminum dissolving in sodium hydroxide solution.
metallic soap compound poured in the mold. Mold design is a group effort of  Chuck Richards, Shawn Borri,Cory Stuart.and  Mc Henry Machine Co.  All rights reserved.
metallic soap compound poured in the mold. Mold design is a group effort of Chuck Richards, Shawn Borri,Cory Stuart.and Mc Henry Machine Co. All rights reserved.
Brown wax cylinder, still hot and in the mold shell,  but cool enough to retain its shape notice how long the cylinder is.
Brown wax cylinder, still hot and in the mold shell, but cool enough to retain its shape notice how long the cylinder is.
a nice display, notice that all are made of same exact chemicals, yet are different shades of brown, this shows, that how long and hot the compound is cooked, makes the color, not different ingredients.
a nice display, notice that all are made of same exact chemicals, yet are different shades of brown, this shows, that how long and hot the compound is cooked, makes the color, not different ingredients.
Notice no line of crystals, solid compound throughout records, and spiral ribs.
Notice no line of crystals, solid compound throughout records, and spiral ribs.
20 New Shawn Borri brown wax blanks
20 New Shawn Borri brown wax blanks

need4art
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by need4art »

It's interesting how the stories go. My wife and I had redone a room in the post Civil War mode and I wanted a cylinder player to put in it. Since I do art restoration work and for a number of antique dealers I was refered to Austin Henry-yes Don Henrey's father and I bought a machine. Not 2 days later one of my dealers called and said a lady was at his shop and she wanted to sell a number of cylinders and he did not want to mess with them. I went over to the shop and bought 260 cylinders for $100. I really did not know what I was buying and what they were worth. It turned out that her husband was a doctor and that he had collected cylinder players and cylinders and that the collection was sold off a number of years ago but she found these in a couple of unmarked boxes. The cylinders were all 2 minute in correct boxes in almost perfect shape-and good titles.

I have been waiting for that to happen again-that was 5 years ago and that machine and those cylinders was the start of this crazyness.

Abe

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Wolfe
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by Wolfe »

What most of these stories seem to add up to is that apart from the lucky large hoarde one may acquire from an estate or deceased collector it's mostly a lot of occasional pickin' and peckin'. Kind of what I figured anyway. :)

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MTPhono
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by MTPhono »

About 15 years ago, when eBay first took off, there were a few sellers offering lots of 50-100 BA, 2 and 4 minute wax etc, unsorted for $1 cylinder. I bought 100 at a time and got quite a few good records, many in excellent condition with lids. It was a short window of maybe 3-4 months that these were offered. Never saw a deal like that again.

I found about 50 mixed cylinders in St Regis, MT yesterday @ $5/each. Nothing of interest to me. Once in Wisconsin I found two Theo Roosevelt cylinders (BA) for $5/each - condition was good and they were playable. Still have them.

On Craigslist in the very late 1990s, a guy offered a dozen Concert cylinders - most in playable condition for a very reasonable amount. This was in the Bay Area - surprised that another collector didnt get to them first. I still have them as well.

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recordo
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by recordo »

Your cylinders look beautiful, Shawn!

Phonofreak
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Re: The cylinder market

Post by Phonofreak »

The best deal I go was a Craigslist add a couple of years ago. There was a gentleman selling 160 Edison Blue Amberols for $100.00. It was one of those deals where you pay the money, and get out of there. I saw some good titles. It wasn't until I got home and looked through the cylinders, that I found a copy of Let Us Not Forget!! It is the short version without the music. Most of my cylinders are from fellow collectors, antique stores and ebay, if I know the seller.
Harvey Kravitz

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