Question on Edison Concert??

[flashpanblue]

Recently I have seen pictures of two different Edison Banner decal Model Concert machines that have factory cygnet back brackets installed ( no horns with the machines) One was on Ebay last week and the other was on a U.K. site ( Howard Hope). I would have thought that the concert machines and 5" records were almost obsolete by the time the cygnet horn set up was offered in 1909. Was this a common conversion? Does anyone have pictures that shows what type of cygnet horn was used?
thanks
Pete

[phonogfp]

The Cygnet horn wasn't introduced until 1909 - two years after production was ceased on the Concert (announced in July 1907 issue of The Edison Phonograph Monthly). And 3 years after production ceased on the banner type cabinet... The short answer is that those back brackets weren't factory installed. They may have been dealer installed - especially if the Concert had been modified with a kit to play standard size cylinders. Or they may have been installed 6 months ago. If they were properly done, how can you tell?

George P.

[flashpanblue]

Hi George,
Do you think it unlikely that an original owner would take his machine to the Dealer to have a cygnet conversion added but stay with the 5" concert cylinders instead of converting to the standard size two minute??
Pete

[Jerry B.]

The purchase of an Edison Concert was a major investment. Concert records represented the latest and best technology at that time. But when mass produced molded records became available, Concert machines and records were instantly obsolete. The Edison company made parts and attachments available to convert Concert machines into ones that played the smaller size records. I suspect many Concert owners took advantage of the opportunity and converted their machines. A few years later those same machines could be converted to play two and four minute cylinders. When Cygnet horns were popular and available, local Edison dealers were called on to attach Cygnet brackets to keep the older machines up to date. Jerry Blais

[flashpanblue]

What did Edison or Columbia Concert cylinder cost new compared to the Standard size cylinders??
Pete

[Andersun]

What did Edison or Columbia Concert cylinder cost new compared to the Standard size cylinders??
Pete

Edison Concerts were $1.00, Edison Standard Cylinders were $.50.

[estott]

I've got an Edison catalog from (I think) 1905. In the front of the book is stresses the superiority of the Concert. In the back, however, it offers a conversion kit, saying that a converted machine "Becomes equal to a Triumph in quality".

[kirtley2012]

I've got an Edison catalog from (I think) 1905. In the front of the book is stresses the superiority of the Concert. In the back, however, it offers a conversion kit, saying that a converted machine "Becomes equal to a Triumph in quality".

Well, edison was contradicting himself there!
A phonograph with superior sound quality that with the purchase of a conversion kit becomes a very expensive triumph....
I have a Edison ad on my wall at my dads and it has a picture of a Edison concert saying "perfect reproduction can only be obtained from Edison records when played on the phonograph" or something like that so he seems to have splashed the concert around in the day!

[phonogfp]

Hi George,
Do you think it unlikely that an original owner would take his machine to the Dealer to have a cygnet conversion added but stay with the 5" concert cylinders instead of converting to the standard size two minute??
Pete

Yes, it's unlikely, but unlikely things happen(ed) all the time. It's very rare to find any earlier (A/B/C) Edison fitted with a cygnet horn that has not been converted for 2/4 minute cylinders. Rarer still to find a Concert still playing 5" cylinders with a cygnet. It's far more likely that someone (possibly a collector with more interest in aesthetics than history) bolted on those brackets many, many years afterward.

George P.

[TinfoilPhono]

I agree with George. While (almost) anything is theoretically possible, the likelihood of someone in the early 20th century adding a cygnet horn to a Concert phonograph without upgrading to small mandrel and 2/4 minute gearing is so remote as to be unfathomable. It's infinitely more likely that some collector, at some time in the less enlightened past, decided to make a (seemingly) more handsome display piece by simply tacking on a bracket and horn.