Playing Pathé vertical records on an orthophonic Victrola

[pughphonos]

Tonight I have completed my version of the modifications that Paul Dodington recommends in the following link:

http://www.capsnews.org/apn2011-3.htm

This involves modifying one's orthophonic Victrola so that it can play Pathé vertical-cut discs. The modifications are simple and completely reversible.

I am ENTIRELY SATISFIED with Dodington's procedure.

1) The sound produced is as warm and detailed as Dodington promised.

2) The records track well.

3) There is no sign of record wear; I'm checking carefully and frequently. I am also pleased that with Dodington's set-up, one can control the degree at which the stylus approaches the record surface. With my Pathé Actuelle (paper cone) phonograph, one cannot control that: you're stuck with a 45 degree angle. With Dodington's set-up, one can secure the reproducer at different angles (and also bend the stylus shank to different degrees) to increase the angle of approach. One contributor on this board (on another theme) has indicated that in the late 1920s it was discovered that bringing that angle of approach more towards perpendicular was better for record wear and reproduction.

So, from now on (ironically) I will no longer play my Pathé verticals on my Pathé Actuelle phonograph but rather on my Victrola.

While I was at it, I also bent the shank of my diamond-tipped shank (the one that enables my Pathé Actuelle to play Edison Diamond Discs) and attached it to the orthophonic sound box. I then tried a few of my Edison records but was not satisfied with the results; too bright and harsh, without the mellow yet detailed tones one gets via the Edison reproducers. So I'll be keeping my current Edison set-up (an S-19 Sheraton).

I heartily recommend Dodington's essay. It is very easy to bend the Pathé shank using a couple pair of pliers, and this simple modification converts the vertical signal coming off the record surface into a lateral signal for the orthophonic reproducer. Even THAT part of the exercise is effectively reversible: just use pliers to bend the shank back straight (it will be more than straight enough to function properly in the needle chuck).

Ralph

[estott]

well, it's good that you like the results, but I hope you haven't gone and ruined something. With the cost of a Pathé stylus I wouldn't do it. You now have a stylus that you can't turn.

[pughphonos]

Thanks for your concern. What's the consensus on how often a Pathé sapphire stylus should be turned? Every 30-40 plays? You're right: having it bent sets it in a position that can't be easily changed. Wonder what Paul Dodington has to say about that. The shank can probably be bent and re-bent a few times to change the orientation of the sapphire and even out its wear.

OK, here's my solution: I'll get another Pathé-complaint sapphire stylus and put it (unbent) on my Pathé Actuelle paper cone phonograph and spread my Pathé use between it and the Victrola. Hardly ideal, but what IS ideal in Antique Phonograph Land? Nothing lasts forever--and as a wise man once said, "In the long run we're all dead."

PLUS...

no one worries about the fact that Edison's model C and H reproducers have sapphire styli in SET positions--and I'm sure the Edison owners use them hundreds of times before giving a thought about shipping them off for new styli.

Hey, is your icon Rudy Wiedoeft?

[VintageTechnologies]

Thanks for your concern. What's the consensus on how often a Pathé sapphire stylus should be turned? Every 30-40 plays? You're right: having it bent sets it in a position that can't be easily changed. Wonder what Paul Dodington has to say about that. The shank can probably be bent and re-bent a few times to change the orientation of the sapphire and even out its wear.

OK, here's my solution: I'll get another Pathé-complaint sapphire stylus and put it (unbent) on my Pathé Actuelle paper cone phonograph and spread my Pathé use between it and the Victrola. Hardly ideal, but what IS ideal in Antique Phonograph Land? Nothing lasts forever--and as a wise man once said, "In the long run we're all dead."

PLUS...

no one worries about the fact that Edison's model C and H reproducers have sapphire styli in SET positions--and I'm sure the Edison owners use them hundreds of times before giving a thought about shipping them off for new styli.

Hey, is your icon Rudy Wiedoeft?

From my own experience, you can play hundreds of Pathés before developing much of a flat spot if you don't turn the stylus. The stylus in an Edison "C" reproducer can last a much longer time than a Pathé for two reasons: 1) the stylus bears down on the record with far less weight than on a Pathé, 2) wax cylinders are softer and less abrasive than celluloid or shellac. I have yet to ever wear out an Edison stylus.

I noticed on eBay that several people sell brand-new Pathé replicas, so you don't have to bend an original stylus shank.

[pughphonos]

Thanks, Vintage Technologies. I'm glad to hear that you feel comfortable using a Pathé sapphire stylus hundreds of times. Good point that the comparison with Edison cylinder surfaces isn't an exact comparison (re. the issue of sapphire wear) as the pre-1912 Edisons are wax whereas the Pathé discs are of course much harder.

You'll be glad to hear that I did not bend an original Pathé shank. It had been newly-made for me by George Vollema of Great Lakes Antique Phonographs (in Michigan). He charges $49.45 for Pathé styli and $55 for diamond-tipped styli (for Edison Diamond Discs).

Am very pleased to be hearing how nice the Pathé verticals can sound when reproduced by the Victor orthophonic spider reproducer (and then fed through the Victor orthophonic horn). I know I've been a bit "rough" on the Pathé Actuelle paper cone phonographs, but I must say that the Pathé vertical discs are very, very nice and contain so much detail and mellowness when picked up via alternate media (electric reproduction included, of course). They are quite a contrast to the loud, brassy sound of the Victor acoustic records.

[pughphonos]

I just want to revive this old thread a moment, regarding my adaptation of Paul Dodington's method of playing Pathé records on a Victrola orthophonic. As I reported in this thread, I was entirely pleased with the results, and still am. Central to his method is taking a Pathé stylus and bending the shank to an angle of around 50 degrees, so that it will convert (or re-channel) the verical vibrations from the Pathé record surface into the needle chuck of the orthophonic (lateral) reproducer.

It dawned on me earlier today that it would be interesting to take that bent Pathé stylus and put it in my Pathé Actuelle needle chuck and attempt to play a Pathé vertical. I assumed that, given the bend in the stylus and that the same stylus plays records loud and clear on the Victrola, that I would be able to play a vertical record on the Actuelle with the paper cone sent to "Pathé" (or vertical). To my surprise, it did not play well. But when I turned the paper cone to the lateral orientation, it played loud and clear!

BTW, I believe the bent stylus (when put in the Pathé Actuelle needle chuck) plays those Pathé verticals more clearly and loudly than before the stylus was bent.

I'm not mechanical enough to understand all the physical principles involved, but thought I should share the results of my experiment.

[Edisone]

But when I turned the paper cone to the lateral orientation, it played loud and clear!

BTW, I believe the bent stylus (when put in the Pathé Actuelle needle chuck) plays those Pathé verticals more clearly and loudly than before the stylus was bent

[beaumonde]

Hey, is your icon Rudy Wiedoeft?

I think estott's avatar is Rudy Vallee.

[pughphonos]

Rudy Vallee!!! I should have known that.