Help Needed Identifying A Horn

[SonnyPhono]

I bought a brass witch's hat horn tonight and can't find much information about it. This style horn is usually 16", but this one is longer. It measures 18" long and has a 7-½" bell. Also, there are threads inside the nipple and the seam where the body meets the bell is different than what I am used to seeing.

It doesn't look quite right when on a machine because of the length.

I was thinking, (wishful thinking!) that maybe the threaded nipple was to prevent the horn from being knocked off or possibly stolen off of a coin op machine. This is just a guess though.

Does anyone know more about this one? Thanks as always for any help!

[Jerry B.]

That looks like a lot of horn to be riding on the reproducer. Does your early Home power through a record with the horn? Is there a hanger on the horn? Do you have an original 14" horn to compare weight? Jerry Blais

[estott]

Possibly a reproduction?

[Jerry B.]

I don't think it's a reproduction but I'm only looking at the same photo as anyone else. It looks like a nice horn for an early Gem but you'd need some kind on hanger. Jerry

[Sidewinder]

with a screw connection inside...looks like the horn off a Faraday / Typhon type manual foghorn?

[mattrx]

Do any of the "puck" reproducers attach to their horns with threads?

[SonnyPhono]

Thanks for the replies everyone. My initial thought when I looked at it was possible reproduction. But after looking more closely at it, I don't think that's the case as it has many similar features found on some of the horns manufactured before 1900. If it isn't a reproduction, then I guess the question is as to whether it is indeed a phonograph horn.

Jerry, I actually haven't played a cylinder with it on a machine yet. I didn't want to risk damaging anything so I just placed it on the Home to take the picture to help show it's size/shape. There isn't a hanger on the horn which is interesting as most horns that are longer than 16" have hardware for hanging them. The threaded nipple along with the lack of hanger is what lead me to think that this might have possibly been used on something like a coin op machine. Screwing the horn securely to an elbow or something similar on the top of a coin op machine would alleviate the need for support from a crane and would also prevent someone from accidentally knocking it off or even stealing it. My coin op theory is just a guess and nothing more.

So I guess at this point, I have a couple questions.

1. Has anyone seen a phonograph horn longer than 16" that doesn't have hanger
hardware the way mine doesn't?

2. Does anyone know if there was ever a phonograph horn produced, including those for coin op models, that used a threaded nipple or similar functioning feature for the means of affixing it to a reproducer, elbow, etc.?

Here are a few more pictures in case it helps. Thanks again for the help!

I'm not sure if this is of any help or not, but, the following picture shows some black residue of some sort that is stuck on the outside of the nipple. It feels like it could be old rubber or possibly some other soft material.

Thanks again for the suggestions/input!

[outune]

Some early front-mount disc Columbias used a threaded 90 degree elbow that screwed into the horn. The threads of course are on the outside of the portion that engages the horn. I have seen this set up on an early Columbia AY with a 30 inch horn. Have only seen it once. I thought it had only been used on the larger machines, but I'm certainly not a Columbia expert. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than I have will chime in.
I happen to have one of the early threaded elbows--(but no horn) They were cast aluminum. I can send you a picture of the elbow if you'd like-- PM me

Brad

[outune]

I'll try to upload a couple pics of the elbow- If I'm successful, you can see that there is a rubber grommet inside the larger end that holds the long throat reproducer-- and, of course, the threaded portion that screws into the horn.

Brad

[SonnyPhono]

Thanks for the information and for posting the pictures. I'm pretty sure you are right about this being a horn for Columbia machines. I looked closer at the area just before the bell where the horn would rest on the curved support found on Columbia machines. Sure enough, there is a spot that shows quite a bit more wear than anywhere else on the horn. Also, the only reference I could find regarding an all brass horn with a length of 18" and a bell diameter of 7-½" was in a book about Columbia cylinder machines. It mentions that an all brass horn with these exact dimensions was available as an upgrade for $2.00.

Could you possibly post the diameter of the threaded side of your elbow? If it matches that of my horn I would be confident that this is indeed a horn for a Columbia machine.

Thanks again for the help!