HMV 203 sold on Ebay-Why so high?

[barnettrp21122]

There was an extreme amount of interest in an HMV 203 phono. Can anyone say what made this such a desireable machine? Thanks!
The ebay link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281037291007?ss ... 1423.l2649

Bob

[Garret]

Bob,

The HMV 203 is quite rare, and have quite an astounding sound, from what I have been told. It's also in high demand. Hence, the price.

Best,

Garret

[gramophoneshane]

There was an extreme amount of interest in an HMV 203 phono. Can anyone say what made this such a desireable machine? Thanks!

Low production numbers for one. Exact production numbers of the mahogany 203 & oak 202 are unknown, but it's fairly reasonable to assume that no more than about 1000 of these 2 models (together) were made.
From their release in 1927 until 1931, less than 300 oak 202's had been sold, and as magany HMV's were more expensive than their oak counterparts, you could probably halve that sales figure for the mahogany 203s.
Like Victors Credenza, the 202 & 203 were HMV's flagship models, but if you compare production numbers at around 64,000 Credenzas for Victor verses around 1000 202/3's for HMV, it's pretty easy to see which is considered the rarer & more desirable machine.

Another factor is that HMV set about making a bigger and better machine than what Victor had made almost 2 years earlier with their flagship Credenza & it's 6' tone chamber, so the 202/3 got a 9' tone chamber instead, and instead of building the horn from cheap timber, HMV used lead plated sheet steel (terne plate).
This, along with the extra 3' in length, and a considerably bigger horn opening, made HMV's 202 & 203, the best sounding, internal horn acoustic machine ever produced in the world.

So to put it simply, what makes both the HMV 202 & 203 such desirable machines is their low production numbers & superior sound.

[Steve]

Everything Shane has said is spot on, of course. However having said all that I am still slightly surprised it was this high because the external finish had been replaced with something inappropriate AND it had been re-motored! My guess is that this originally had an oil-bath motor and has had an EARLIER No. 34 motor to replace it. If you examine the pictures carefully you'll see where the escutcheon has been altered and a hole filled in.

[barnettrp21122]

Thanks Guys! Obviously the market is strong for machines such as this.
Bob

[gramophoneshane]

With all it's faults, I personally think it sold for full price because it's walnut (although a very low quality walnut if you ask me).
I must admit I didn't think this one would go quite so high, especially taking into account, the price fetched recently for the equally unusual Indian Teak 202 example that, IMO, sold rather cheaply. But then I guess the mere mention of "walnut" has some collectors wetting their pants, where as "Teak" doesn't have the same prestigious status globally and never has the same "wet pants" effect on so many collectors

Im not sure I agree with your "oil bath motor" theory though Steve.
The Walnut example above has a one piece board along the back where the tonearm is mounted, and the large one piece motor board.
If you look at the picture below of an oil bath motored machine, it has 2 planks of timber running parallel to the sides of the cabinet, with a short plank joining the two across the back of the cabinet where the tonearm is mounted, and the smaller 14" x 14" inset motor board.
The third variety like mine, that I assume had the oil bath motors replaced (or substituted) with No.34's for the half price sale, also use the same construction method under the lid.

In my humble opinion, the walnut example started life with an electric motored turntable, and the extra "filled" hole was probably just a first attempt mistake made by whoever fitted the No.34 spring motor to the machine.
Then again, you could be right, and the “LA VOZ DE SU AMO” factory in Spain may have continued to use the original motor board construction method for machines fitted with an oilbath motor?
Of course there's also a chance that both boards are replacements. The motor board obviously is because it looks far too clean & new, and it shows no signs of ever having the oiling chart attached to it.

Not that we can accurately measure the ebay example, but I'm curious about the difference in the positions of the crank hole on the 3 variations.
On my machine, from the front edge of the cabinet to the centre of the hole, it measures exactly 11 ½".
Any chance you could grab a tape measure and tell me how far back the centre of the crank hole is from the front edge of the cabinet upright?

Something else I noticed on the ebay machine, which I have never seen before, is a metal tag attached to the left motor board support rail. I assume this is the serial number plaque (as it looks very similar to the one in my early front wind 101).
Did the first version of the British machines that had the model number decal on the motor board, also carry a serial number plaque like this, and in the same approximate position, or is this something that may have only been used on machine made in Spain?
I've never had the opportunity to remove the big one piece motor board from a Re-entrant before, so I really dont know

[Steve]

Shane, I had heard about these ID plaques but never had a machine with one on myself. I had an early 194 with quadruple spring motor and one piece motor board. I did remove it - no ID plaque!

The late 202 I own also does not have one. The straight answer is: I don't have an answer!

I'm not convinced it was walnut. TBH, I doubt that'd make any collector wet themselves. A 202/3 is a 202/3 irrespective of what motor or wood veneer finish it has. Now, an electrically driven 202/3 would be a very different proposition. Only 4 ever sold?

[epigramophone]

The listing included a link to the 1928 Spanish catalogue which shows the available wood finishes as follows :

203 : Norgal (Walnut). Note that the 202 is not listed at all.

194 : Norgal (Walnut) or Caoba (Mahogany). The 193 is not listed at all.

163 : As 194.

It appears therefore that not only is the Spanish 203 Walnut, but that this was the only finish available in Spain.

[gramophoneshane]

I too noticed the 202 & 193 were absent from the catalogue & that the 203 was only made in Walnut (using google translate), so it obviously IS walnut, but more than likely it's a walnut native to Spain. Whatever species of walnut it is, it's certainly nowhere near as attractive as the Circassian & burr walnuts Im used to.

I suppose we should be greatful that walnut 203s were never made here in Australia, otherwise they may have ended up looking like the Queensland walnut lowboy wardrobe below

[Inigo]

I found this very old thread... My own 194 is Spanish too, and it has the 34 motor. It also carries the metal plate with no. 2 stamped. Same number 2 is engraved to the edge of the motorboard and the tonearm board. This must be meaning that it was no. 2 cabinet made at the cabinet section of the factory. Mine has an original 5a soundbox, and one lid stay only in the left side. I believe later models carried two lid stays. My machine has no other identification.