What is considered a Trade Mark Machine

[pappde]

Just before this year is over I would love to have a nice lovely discussion to sign off 2012
When it comes to Berliner gramophones, what would you consider as a Trademark Machine?
The purist definition is the easiest, i.e. the machine Barraud received from Owen and painted; a machine with the second type side brake (the lever kind), a brass horn and a "Gramophone Company 31 Maiden Lane" transfer (but manufactured in the US).
The "non" purist definition is much more difficult.
Would you include the "swing"brake earlier or the bolt brake later model?
What about the different horns?
Canadian, European?

[gramophone78]

You may want to revisit your past thread on this...."Berliner Versions". There are also threads on Berliner reproducers, horns and record nuts that show and discuss this in great detail.
Hope this helps.

[phonogfp]

Since the "Trade Mark" term is latter-day collectors' nomenclature, I'd expect both your "purist" and "non-purist" definitions would be popular. For myself, I'd simplify it to any Berliner "Improved Gramophone" (the term used at the time) using the original U.S. type motor/exposed spring cage machine, whether assembled in the U.S. or Europe; side-brake or top brake; with any belled Berliner horn.

I'm not as comfortable using the "Trade Mark" term for machines with spring cages that differ from the original design, either European or Canadian. That's just one collector's perspective...

George P.

[Starkton]

For myself, I'd simplify it to any Berliner "Improved Gramophone" (the term used at the time) using the original U.S. type motor/exposed spring cage machine, whether assembled in the U.S. or Europe; side-brake or top brake; with any belled Berliner horn.
George P.

George, I expected this well-balanced opinion from you, and I applaud it.

[gramophone78]

George, I agree also on your comment. However, I must add I have not found a Berliner (Gramophone) I didn't like. Improved or not.... .

[phonogfp]

George, I agree also on your comment. However, I must add I have not found a Berliner (Gramophone) I didn't like. Improved or not.... .

Agreed - - any Berliner (Gramophone) is a good Berliner!

George P.

George, I expected this well-balanced opinion from you, and I applaud it.

You're very kind. Like a broken clock, I get it right twice a day - - I must have gotten lucky this time! Thanks Stephan - -

George P.