I'm thinking about getting a Orthophonic and I need help

[jeff spicoli]

The past few years I have been trying to get one big item with my tax return. I get caught up on bills and then splurge a little....kinda like a present to myself.

I just received the Victor Data book last week and it has opened a whole new world to me when it comes to Victors and Victrolas. Its an amazing book and now I'm thinking of possibly getting some kind of Orthophonic and was wanting to know as a new collector what should I look for in these types of machines?

Is there any I need to stay clear of? Which ones have more "bang for your buck"? I would like to NOT go over $1000. Does rarity affect value? If you type in Victrola on eBay you come up with thousands of results but if you type in Orthophonic there's not much out there.

Maybe I'm getting in over my head, but before I make any decisions I'd like to hear the experts opinions.

[Wolfe]

You should be able to come in well under a thousand dollars for any Ortho machine, except perhaps a 10-50?

But one big factor to consider is the often deteriorated pot metal used in components of these machines. I know there has been quite a bit of discussion here on that issue.

[Nat]

It depends, too, on what you want to hear, and the space available. The portables are not to be dismissed. The Victrola 2-55 and 2-65 both deliver astonishingly good sound, take up little room, and can be found at relatively low prices (so you can spend the rest of the $1,000 on records!).

Have a look at: http://myvintagetv.com/updatepages1/cha ... tables.htm


Still and all, the Credenza is the Big Gun; I found mine for $500 on craigslist.

[bbphonoguy]

I think the reason an ebay search does not show much for "Orthophonic" is simply because the average ebay seller doesn't know what an orthophonic Victrola is. The world "Victrola" is right there on the lid, so that usually makes it into the description.

If you want my opinion, and it's only an opinion, it is generally considered that the Credenza gives the best sound. If floor space is a consideration, and you want good sound with what I consider to be the most attractive orthophonic victrola, you might consider a VV 8-12. The sound is completely satisfactory, and the cabinet is very nice looking.

[jeff spicoli]

What do collectors think of the later Victolas with Radiolas in them?? Are they even considered Orthophonic? For example, I've read that some collectors would rather have wind up Victrolas instead of the Electrric Victrolas? Looking at the Data book there is just so many options and styles that its hard to tell what is what?

[Bruce_Van_Note]

I prefer spring-wound Orthophonic Victrolas. I find them easier to maintain. The later electrics with Radiola are OK, but one should have a very good knowledge of electric motors and antique radio circuitry in order to properly maintain the instrument. I'm not knowledgeable about those things, nor do I know of many service techs who work on electric Victrolas and combos, but I could be wrong on that point. That's just my humble opinion. Some excellent spring-wound Victrolas include the VV 4-3, VV 4-7, VV 4-20, and VV 4-40. They are small to modest in size, deliver a powerful sound, and are not that expensive, when you can find one in fine condition. The VV 8-30 (or 8-1, or Credenza) is the king of the Orthophonics, but the VV 8-35 (with a metal horn), VV 8-4, and VV 8-12 are also excellent looking, and sounding phonographs. When looking, choose a phonograph that is in good cosmetic and mechanical shape, won't demand too much added expense of returning it to great condition, and won't cost you an arm and a leg to ship, if the seller will even want to ship. I own each of the phonographs described above and I'm more than happy with their looks and performance. Best of luck to you.

[Microtrol]

I agree with the posts above, I currently have an Credenza, 8-12 and a 8-4 and the Credenza is really a nice sounding machine but as said above, it is a large and very heavy machine and my back can prove it. On the 8-12, the tone arm support disintegrated (Pot Metal) but there are reproductions available as i used on my machine. If you can find one with the brass reproducer (7 slot style instead of the 9 slot pot metal), you would be way ahead.

Brandt

[Uncle Vanya]

What do collectors think of the later Victolas with Radiolas in them?? Are they even considered Orthophonic? For example, I've read that some collectors would rather have wind up Victrolas instead of the Electrric Victrolas? Looking at the Data book there is just so many options and styles that its hard to tell what is what?

Well, the early Electrola machines such as the Borgia II or 9-40, the 8-60, and the Hyperion tend to be both complicated and a bit beyond your stated budget, at least for a reasonably good example. Others of the early Electrolas can be poor performers (the 7-26, Cromwell) or can have rather finicky early electronics (Tuscany, 9-18). On the other hand, the Micro-Synchronous Electrolas of 1929 and 1930 are electronically simple, durable, and perform extremely well after they have been properly restored. Models include the RE-45, RE-75 and even the 1931 model RE-57. The first series sets (RE-45, RE-75) can be greatly improved by the substitution of one of the 1931 model "Inertia" (Cobra) tone arms for the straight arm. the "cobra" arm improves needle point compliance, lessening record wear while improving reproduction.

A good Micro-Synchronous machine in restored condition should cost less than five hundred dollars, as should a large Orthophonic machine (perhaps not a Credenza, but their prices have been very soft lately), so for your thousand dollars you should be able to get both an electric and an acoustic machine, depending upon where in the country you are located.

The 8-35 was the replacement for the Credenza, and actually performs better when properly restored. It may initially appear to produce less bass than a Credenza, but that is an illusion. The reproduction of the 8-35 appears to be less bass heavy only because it offers adequate trebel response, an area in which the Credenza is a bit lacking.

BTW, where are you located?

[FloridaClay]

You really can't go wrong with a Credenza if you have the space for it. They are large, but very handsome and sound great. They were Victor’s break though top of the line machines used to first demonstrate the then new Orthophonic sound quality that blew earlier acoustic phonographs out of the water (bumping up the range by about 2 octaves).

Usual issues are, as others have mentioned, mostly about pot metal. The tone arm support brackets can break, but good reproductions are readily available and easy to install.

The main issue with just about all Orthophonics is the pot metal reproducers. They are often cracked and can't be taken apart to service without disintegrating. There is a guy name Peter Wall is San Francisco who works on them, though, and he can sometimes perform miracles in getting them to sound good again without disassembling them. Of course best of all is to find an early Credenza made before the shift to pot metal whose reproducer has brass parts instead. You can recognize them because the reproducer has 7 of the tear-drop shaped holes rather than 9. If you find one of those in your area on Craig's list or such at a good price, pounce on it. The brass reproducers alone can bring north of $400 on eBay.

Personally I prefer spring wound machines to electrics, but your call. As I recall the electric phonograph motors have some very large old-fashioned resisters in them that might be hard to find, among other things.

That a machine has a Radiola does not make it any less an Orthophonic. Before 1929 RCA and Victor were 2 separate companies. Victor bought the Radiolas from RCA and added them to phonograph cabinets to meet the demand for combination radio phonographs.

These early Radiolas are handsome, but can be a real pain to service. Much of the electronic bits for some of them were put in metal boxes, referred to as "catacombs" by collectors, and then the box was filled with something like tar that has to be removed to replace parts.

On the early Orthophonics the Radiolas and the phonographs also shared the internal horn. There is a set of gears used to shift the sound channel from the phonograph to the radio and back and those are made of pot metal which will usually have fallen apart. And the wiring harness for the Radiola looks like an accident in a spaghetti factory and often needs replacing because the wire insulation has rotted.

I have a 9-15 with a spring wound phonograph and a battery operated Radiola that I bought because they are pretty rare and I like antique radios as well as phonographs, but I will likely just leave the Radiola portion of it as something to look at rather than operate as the restoration of it would just be too expensive to do as it should be done due to all those issues.

Clay

[estott]

One big problem with the early Phono / Radio combinations is the pot metal valve that directs the radio input to the horn. It's very likely to swell up and become useless. Also- if you don't have the radio rebuilt you've got a dead lump of electronics taking up half the cabinet.

The Credenza is what most people aim for, but the Granada will give excellent results in a more compact form. The Consolette may have been the low end model but don't dismiss it lightly- they can pack quite a punch for their size.