cylinder shaver

[debndunk]

Hi Guy's and happy new year. Can anyone tell me if the shaver on an Edison machine is good enough for serious music recordings. many thanks Gordon.

[kirtley2012]

not usually, they do shave but not the best, the motor in a conventional phonograph is not powerful enough, its best to have a ediphone or dictaphone shaver for serious recording

[debndunk]

Hi Kirtley, Thanks for getting back to me. the machine I was going to use is a Triumph with a triple spring so its quite strong,I was concerned more about the quality of the cutter.But yes you are right,and I would love a Edison shaver.

[edisonphonoworks]

Serious shaving is accomplished best on an Ediphone or Dictaphone shaver. The Ediphone, make sure it is lubricated, and all parts moving freely, and your feed screw and half nut are free of wax. Find the highest possible point on the blank, and push the knife down into the wax gently and lock the lock lever in place. Move the carriage over to the right and shave from right to left, it is opposite from a normal phonograph, so it pushes the blank onto the mandrel, if it went the way of the phonograph it would push it off, with the high speed. Dictaphones, are similar, find the highest spot on the blank and turn the adjustment wheel gently down so it just hits the highest point, and shave from right to left indexing the veneer wheel about a ⅛-¼ turn per pass, and shave until the song is gone. Always when finished make sure to back your adjustment wheel up, or you will gouge your next blank. I work two Ediphone shavers every day, with the lever lock system, and sometimes work 8 hours shaving. I also have an apprentice who comes in and is trained to shave cylinders when I am making a lot of blanks. I have to semi finish the cylinders two hours after they are molded to make sure the surfaces are good, and there are no surprises. I used to mold twenty or 30 blanks, let them sit a few weeks and shave them and find that 10 or 15 had flaws, and this would set me back so I now semi finish when 3 blanks are molded , they are shaved down to 2.26" in diamiter, they sit for 30 days and are further shaved down to 2.195" Do not forget the finish saves, some of these have an up for second cut lever, I give it 3 passes after the initial shave, and the surface is very polished.

Phonograph shaving

Edison Triumph, Class M, and Edison Concert,

1. Make sure your shaving knife is in good shape, and remove the Chute, they clog and cause problems.


2. Put the carriage down in the center of the blank and push the cutter gently down into the blank at the highest point.

3. lock the lock lever in place.

4. Put the phonograph at the highest safe speed, and shave all the way across the surface of the cylinder.

5. one half thousandth is normal size shaves on a Phonograph.

6. Repeat above steps until the surface is shiny and the recording is no longer audiable. Do not adjust the knife in the middle of a cut.

Standard and home

7. All things similar with the standard and home find the highest spot lower the carriage. Adjust the veneer adjustment screw down to the surface of the cylinder, so it barely touches.

Start the phonograph, and advance the wheel a tiny bit at a time with each pass until the cylinder is devoid of the recording.

When finished shaving return the shaver to the highest position away from the record. It is a good idea to remove the reproducer when shaving.

It takes great practice to shave well, so do not expect it to be good on the first try, but try very hard to do a good job. As you gain experience you will be able to shave well.

I have hundreds of hours of experience shaving blank cylinders. I actually shave blanks that are very eccentric, and have to shave off cylinders that are 2.4" in diamiter down to 2.195" in diameter.

[debndunk]

Hi, Thanks for all that info, it's great to have so much advice and believe me I need it. Once I start shaving cylinders I have got your instructions to refer to. Many thanks Gordon.

[edisonphonoworks]

Chuck Richards, myself and several others measured cylinders to find out how thin or thick is acceptable. Chuck says that 2.196" is about the maximum that an Edison Phonograph will safely take without causing problems with the reproducer. I have found this true also. Original brown wax Edison blanks shaved from the factory measure 2.190 to 2.160" in diameter. Edison Gold Moulded records range from 2.165 to 2.146" in diameter, it appears that they were shooting for a finished record of 2.150" in diameter. The smallest commercial record I measured was an Albany Indestructible at 2.122" in diameter. I thought all this was very interesting, and something to keep in mind when shaving blanks, or making master cylinders.

[debndunk]

Hi, thanks all info is very welcome, have you or any others on here seen what Victrola Guy has been doing on Youtube? He's been shaving and recording on gold molded cylinders and getting good results.He also is using an amplifier with a gadget fitted to the recorder to record direct.Then a, what I think is a mic to play back through the amp. It's all very interesting. Gordon

[flashpanblue]

Hi Gordon,
Benjamin The Victrola GUY is not recording on Gold moulded cylinders he is recording on Edison Dictaphone blanks that have been cut back to the length of a regular cylinder and shaved down to the correct diameter. Shaved gold moulded cylinder may give some results but they are too hard a composistion to make good recording blanks. He sells his recording blanks in a nice repro box for $20.00
Pete

[debndunk]

Well sorry to argue the point but Victrola guy definitely has used gold molded wax cylinders on youtube,and played them back on a model c reproducer and they sound pretty good.I haven't done any recording as of yet,thats why i'm asking so many questions and looking on youtube.I want to find the best and longest lasting medium to work with. Gordon

[gramophoneshane]

I've never watched more than a couple of his videos, but I just went through quite a few more, and he does indeed use at least some Gold Moulded 2M records for recording, and he is getting great results with a 2M recorder. Actually, in those I watched, I didn't see any that appeared to be cut down dictation cylinders with a cloth lining for added strength. Of course, that's not to say he doesn't sell these though.

It's not something I've been able to achieve using a convensional recording horn, so his "audio driver" must be moving the diaphragm enough for a 2M cutter to work just fine on shaved Gold Moulded cylinders.
It makes his $160 audio driver well worth thinking about IMO.

I just wonder how long it will be before we start to see rare & expensive 2 minute cylinder "fakes" start to turn up on Ebay being sold as originals, either with a new title inscribed on the cylinder, or where people have used damaged or moldy originals they have shaved and re-recorded?
The sound quality is certainly good enough to pass as a legitimate original recording.
I also wonder if this little device could spell the end of the need for new blanks, like those made by Shawn & Paul Morris, with the many thousands of moldy cylinders that are out there & available for next to nothing.