Special Auction Services UK: prices raised

[dd2u]

The prices for the last few sales are available on line here:
http://www.specialauctionservices.com/archive_sales.php
(click the dates under the picture of the Beatles on the right hand side; the "music and entertainment auctions" link on the left takes you to future sales)

Helpfully, they have now adopted the convention of adding the prices to the illustrated on-line catalogue, rather than producing a separate "prices only" sheet. Hence it is now fairly easy to browse for items of interest, and see immediately the prices they realised. You can click on any of the tiny photos for a much better view.

A lot of the machine prices are comparable to those fetched on eBay UK (you must add commission to the hammer price). The variety of machines at SAS is far better. The quality varies (which, in the flesh, helps to explain some of the apparently inexplicable differences).

The record prices vary greatly. Large lots of fairly common but wanted records fetch 10p to £1 per record. Rare items fetch tens or hundreds of pounds per record. Uninteresting lots go for nothing. There is profit to be made in buying some of the nice but cheap lots and re-selling the records individually, but I do not know if there is a living to be made. It would take a lot of time, travelling, and transport costs to realise the full value.

[epigramophone]

The next sale catalogue is now available to view on line.

It lists some very rare records and a large number of machines, including a circa 1909 Gramophone Grand.

[dd2u]

Lot 289
De Reszke, Marie: Fonotipie 39104, Le Rossignol, acc. Jean de Reszke
Estimate: £6000-£9000

Can anyone enlighten me as to why this record is believed to be worth so much, and who would pay so much?

I saw records going for hundreds of pounds each at the first auction, and spoke to the buyers. They could afford to indulge their hobby, and (crucially, it seemed to me) let their wives indulge themselves in whatever they were interested in to such an extent that they did not complain about how much their husbands spent on crackly old records. The men clearly loved the music and the performances. These were bought to play, and to complete a collection, not as an investment. Rather foolishly the conversation ended before I thought to ask what machine would be used to play a several hundred pound record.

Those who believe the UK hobby is only old men paying 10p per disc are obviously wrong, but I wonder where these expensive records are going, and how their value will change in the future. As far as I could tell, the expensive records were not going abroad at that sale.

I am suddenly very grateful for having comparatively cheap tastes. The gramophones I would like cost less than this one record!


At the other end of the scale, it looks like they gave up even bothering to list separate lots for 606-608: buy one, get an option on another seven!

[epigramophone]

Marie was Jean de Reszke's wife, and he is also known to have accompanied her on a Mapleson cylinder.

I have no idea how the auctioneers arrived at the pre-sale estimate. Valuation is generally based on comparison, but when did a copy of this record last come onto the market?

Perhaps someone to whom £6000/£9000 is small change will buy it. At the last of the Roger Thorne sales, some records were selling for several times their guide prices. What makes auctions so fascinating is their unpredictability.

[OrthoSean]

Quite simply, Jean de Reszke records are extremely rare. I'm not sure that the estimate given is exactly accurate, BUT, still, it's a certain rarity!

Sean

[yankmycrank]

What I don't understand is the nature of that auction: no condition listings for exceptionally rare (and even moderately rare) records, and auctions in lots. Even if the house ran this as an e*** auction, the records could be graded and sold individually, and certainly wouldn't be subject to pre-sale pawing (and related potential damage). Seems more like a fire sale than an auction, which is sad, considering JPG's superb connoisseurship.

[dd2u]

Instead of looking at this as eBay but with severe disadvantages, consider it as a normal in-person auction from 20 years ago (you come, you view, you bid), but now with the added benefit of being able to browse the catalogue on-line. In the UK, there are still plenty of in-person local and regional auction houses selling valuable items with nothing more than the sale date (if that!) available on-line.

If anyone is daft enough to buy without being there, caveat emptor!


I share your worry about people "pawing" such rare items, but most will be "behind the counter" and available only on request. It has always surprised me what rare items auctioneers will happily place into my hands on request, but in this case I would not dare to ask or to hold!


These kinds of sales are where the dealers who sell on eBay (and elsewhere) acquire some of their stock. When these items are subsequently re-sold, you may see the detailed descriptions and single-item lots that you desire, with an elevated price to match. However, plenty of lots will go straight into the hands of private collectors, never to be sold again during their lifetime.

[yankmycrank]

Exactly the point--this is the 21st century, and purchasing rare records is much, much better than the old "caveat emptor" auction days of the 70s and 80s, where more often than not it was an in-person auction, a mail list, or nothing. I far prefer to purchase records from e*** these days from reputable dealers, who grade records accurately and stand by their purchases. If I go to an in-person auction for records, it's because I'm looking for a bargain in a huge lot, and can take the chance that some records will be broken or filched between the preview and the final sale. (which has happened to me on more than one occasion). I know of a few major US collectors who are sitting out this Getty auction, for that very reason.

The same is true for mail auctions (which is more likely to be an online catalog, such as those produced by Norbeck, Peters and Ford, Larry Holdridge, Milt Weiss, and other experts in the field.). They all stand behind their grading, and offer refunds to those who are not satisfied. Some, like Holdridge, also sell via e***. I expect no great bargains in these places, but am assured that if I'm the successful bidder I'll get exactly the item as described, fully guaranteed.

[dd2u]

It is the seller who chooses where to sell, not the buyer.

I cannot believe the seller is unaware of eBay. Similarly, they are probably aware of services which will list items on eBay for you if you cannot spare the time yourself.

There are advantages to in-person auctions: you can see the actual item with your own eyes, it does not need to be sent through the post, and you can take it away on the day.


That said, if you cannot be there yourself, these advantages mean nothing. If I were selling, I would use eBay, or a different privately run well publicised on-line sale method which allowed me to keep more of the money myself.

Yet it has been said that the prices reached at SAS are mostly comparable to eBay; I believe the seller's fee is smaller, but the buyer must also pay a fee. By my reckoning, that means the auction house makes about the same as eBay but must work much harder, the seller does better (unless they are unlucky) but has far less to do, and the buyer will pay slightly more (unless they are lucky). If this calculation is correct, I can see why sellers use this method.

[estott]

Quite simply, Jean de Reszke records are extremely rare. I'm not sure that the estimate given is exactly accurate, BUT, still, it's a certain rarity!

Sean

So rare that people may pay an astonishing sum to hear a famous tenor playing the piano. I trust that it is really him, and not an instance like Victor's record of flutist John Lemmone with "Mme Melba at the piano".