Why is the Diamond Disk machine under appreciated in the US?

[Jerry B.]

Considering the low sales of the Edison Diamond Disk machine, why are todays collector values so low in the States and Canada? I get the impression from our friends in other parts of the world that a nice Diamond Disk machine would be a prize. Thanks for your comments. Jerry Blais

[De Soto Frank]

I've seen a number of examples that looked nice from 10 feet away, but up-close, had issues with veneer de-laminating, and glue-joints loosening-up... issues I've rarely seen with Victor products, even under adverse storage conditions.

Another factor might be the limited choices of music available on Diamond Disc, compounded by the belief by many sellers that "those odd thick records must be really valuable", and ask pretty steep prices for them...
(Obviously, they've never listened to what was actually ON most of those discs... )

I've owned two DD players, first was a rough S-19 that really was a decent runner (gave that away to friends who inherited an Edison Standard, and thought they'd be a good home for the machine), the second and present DD is a Laboratory Model C-250, in fairly decent condition.

I've always been impressed by the engineering of the Diamond Disc machine: two-spot oiling, "cuing lever", auto-stop, "linear tracking", and volume control... pretty advanced stuff for that era...


My biggest disappointment with Edison phonographs in general is the type/quality of music offered... it's really a shame that "old, deaf Tom" had final word over the catalog for so many years...

I like them, and am glad to own my C-250, but don't really see myself having more than one.

[Edisone]

Even Mina Edison had reservations about the Edison Diamond Discs: something like "If Dearie doesn't get some good musicians, his phonograph won't be a success" ... or words to that effect. I wonder if she had a secret stash of Caruso, played only when her Dearie was at the lab. hehe.

If you like the Edison Concert Band, Jaudas' Society Orch, American Symphony Orch, etc - then you like the Edison. I do, lucky (?) for me. Thomas Chalmers fans, too (are there any?) ...

[De Soto Frank]

Well, at least Edison offered Billy Murray and Ada Jones, the occasional Collins & Harlan, and The Happiness Boys...

The one DD that actually made me almost furious was "Absolutely, Mr.Gallagher? Postively, Mr. Shean!" as a pure instrumental dance-band number!!!!!

My BP still goes-up when I think about that disc !

I guess I got spoiled listening to the real thing on Victor...

I do have a couple of nice band recordings, including one by Creatore's Band (etched label)...

Then there's the requesite dearth of Vernon Dalhart ballads: ( "In the Baggage Car ahead", "That old religion's better after all" (Scopes Monkey Trial), "Ballad of Floyd Collins", etc, etc...)

It's ironic, my C-250 has two tiers of record storage; it'll probably take me a lifetime to fill them, as I'm fussy about what music I'm getting on the Diamond Disc...

[1926CredenzaOwner]

Probably the same reasons that hindered sales in the first place.

#1. A limited selection of good music available at reasonable prices compared to that of a lateral machine.
Sure, there are some "hot" selections, and some wonderful classical recordings that exist on the Edison label, but good luck walking into your local thrift or junk store and finding one. "Go to eBay!" you say? There is currently one listing up for a "hot" Edison Diamond Disc, and five that have sold recently. If something does come up that you really want... like, let's say "The Charleston" by the Golden Gate Orchestra? That's going to run you between $90.00 and $300.00. If you like regular run-of-the-mill jazz groups like The Original Memphis Five, you're looking at shelling out almost $40.00 a disc for good sides compared to $5.00 for essentially the same thing on Victor! However, if you enjoy stuff like old-time music or the once exotic Hawaiian music of the '20s, then by all means! Buy yourself an Edison. You'll be in heaven.

#2. A proprietary system that renders all other discs but Edison's unplayable.
I'm going to make this point short, and just get to it. Edison was a stubborn old coot who refused to acknowledge that his systems were either outdated, or would never catch on. When he finally decided to throw his hat in the ring by 1912, cheap lateral disc records and machines already had a strong foothold in the market. So, what did Edison do? He made an expensive machine that required a specific and equally expensive disc. Want to play your Victor discs on an Edison machine? Sure, no problem! Here's an adapter that barely works and wears out your records faster than a standard lateral machine!

#3. Difficulty finding decent replacement styli.
How many threads have I seen on this forum discussing buggered replacement styli?

Being in the south, I have had many opportunities to buy some very nice Edison Diamond Disc machines at very reasonable prices, but I have always passed on them. I don't buy machines to look at them, and every time I consider purchasing a Diamond Disc Machine... I know that's all I'll end up doing with it because, as others have already mentioned, the selection of music available to play on it is more ghastly than great.

As for why the Brits seem to want them... you got me on that one. Maybe because they're exotic? I tried to find information on Diamond Disc sales in the UK and Europe, but was unable to find anything. Were they even sold in great numbers anywhere but The Americas?

[Lucius1958]

True: it's a bloody pity that Edison couldn't (or sometimes wouldn't) hire the best artists for DDs...

Also, the early discs, though amazing when you can find them in good condition, were pretty damn expensive to produce; when they attempted to cut costs, the quality began to suffer badly, and didn't recover until after the war.

Add to that Edison's reliance on jobbers for sales, instead of dedicated Company dealers, and you have a recipe for slow decline....

All that being said, I'm still in love with DDs - as in the rhyme, "When they were good, they were very very good...."

Bill

[Andersun]

Values are low because:

1. They are very common today. You see many for sale in every city on Craigslist.
2. The Lab models are beasts to move around.
3. The records weigh a ¼ pound each
4. They are real plain looking on the inside except for the A models when at least they had some pin stripe decor.

And these are all just physical attributes......

[epigramophone]

They are not that sought after in the UK either, and despite being comparatively rare over here they do not generally command high prices, unless they have an exceptional cabinet or perhaps an LP attachment. A classic example of rarity not always equating to value.

A handful of machines and discs reached the UK prior to 1914, but wartime import restrictions and tariffs meant that they did not go on general sale here until late 1920. They never made much impact in a market already dominated by the lateral cut "78".

Today, the main problem facing UK collectors is obtaining GOOD discs, and this also keeps the prices of machines down. For example, an S-19 "Sheraton sans inlay" only reached GBP£170 at the recent SAS sale. I would much prefer an Amberola 80 in the same cabinet, because Blue Amberols are relatively plentiful and have usually survived in better condition.

[whoopinola]

When I started collecting gramophones , it was to play them. Play my favourite stuff, the 20's hot dance bands... No need to get a cylinder machine or a Diamond Disc because Edison recorded lousey music....Well , that was 30 years ago , and I've broadened my outlook...and learned a few things too...My dad's father , in the early depression , brought home their first record player , a C-100...{lesson2}..there's more to musical life than fox trots... {lesson 3}...any old 78/80 is great, cylinders too , it's all great...{lesson 4} ..I was wrong about Edison DD's , he did record some realy hot stuff , and a paper label found in a junk shop stack can make the heart go hmmmmmmmm...So now the fleet includes a C-19 , several Amberolas , and a Standard , and they all get played ...Yes , I still prefer Fess Williams on the VV-8-12, but there's a time for it all....The other posts are spot on. Edison had his quirks, and this is reflected in the things he made , but, it is what it is , and we must enjoy it for what it is...

[Wagnerian]

To echo Eprigramophone, I am always astonished at how little interest there seems to be in Diamond Discs in the UK, given that the machines and discs are comparatively rare here. I suspect it has something to do with the bad press that Edison discs get, there is the preception that:

a) they are noisy - partially true
b) the music is uninteresting - partially true but there were some great operatic singers, Urlus, Hemple, Destinn, Muzio, Bonci, Bori
c) the discs are heavy and unwieldy - definitely true

That being said, the machines are extremely well made and many of them are very attractive to look at so it is a surprise that they go for so little at auction. I've seen a Baby Consol struggle to get £50 at Christies in the past and the machine I use the most, a Jacobean J19, I bought for just over £100 which was an incredible bargain considering its rarity.

If you want to hear the best recordings made anywhere in the early 1920s then I would say without any hesitation, get a Diamond Disc player, get the reproducer tuned-up new gaskets etc., I also use one of Larry H's experimental diaphragms, get some good quality discs and I can guarantee the reproduction will blow your socks off - you may never want to listen to an HMV again!

Happy listening

Tim W-W