Taking Apart Phonograph and Removing Rust - Help!

[holmes54]

I bought an Edison Home Model D phonograph for fun and decided to try my hand at eventually restoring it. It's in pretty rough shape as seen in the picture of the top of the phonograph.
I'm guessing that all of the parts are supposed to be able to come apart and come off of the base. I have taken out all the screws that I saw. Is the reproducer arm unit attached to the rod in the back supposed to come off? I'm guessing the mandrel is supposed to be able to come off too? Is the whole thing perhaps rusted together or something? Is it even possible to get all of the rust off?
Thoughts, suggestions?
Any help is appreciated - I'm new at this!

[HisMastersVoice]

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks to be completely rusted together, and probably far beyond the reach of restoration.

[kirtley2012]

the feed screw will definately need to be replaced, when those get rusted the grooves are just too fine to file the rust off.
if you are new to restoration, it may be too much for you, it will need a complete restoration, ive been collecting these machines for 3-4 years, i havent even took on something this rusted yet !, and ive bought alot of broken machines

[VintageTechnologies]

All the parts should come off. Take your time and don't force anything. Have you ever seen a paleontologiest dig out a dinosaur with a dental pick and brush? The record mandrel is probably frozen due to a swollen pot metal bushing. Some people use muratic acid to dissolve the bushing enough to start working it loose. Anything is possible if you are determined enough. Do you enjoy challanges? Are you good with your hands? Have you done restorations in other fields? There is something satisfying about rescuing a a piece of history from the junk pile. This would be a good machine to practice your skills on. Any future project would seem simple afterward. However, it might cost more than simply buying a clean machine. I have seen complete restorations of basket cases about as bad. There are plenty of inspiring articles and tips on this website dealing with everything you are likely to confront. It's a common enough machine that you won't lose much besides time and money if you decide you can't complete it. The bed plate can be sand blasted and repainted. Clean up the rusty parts and decide if they should be restored or replaced. There might be usable screw threads under that rust. Lots of parts are found on eBay. Lots of people here have spare parts and advice. Document your progress with photos.

[phonogfp]

I once saw a Zonophone motor that looked at least as bad as that Home - everything was rusted together. Solid brown. The owner simply submerged it in a bucket of acid and left it there for a day or two. I saw the motor later and couldn't believe it was the same one. It was then completely disassembled (including mainsping & barrel), cleaned & adjusted. After reassembly it ran like a champ. I was amazed.

Of course, there's no feedscrew on a Zonophone. That feedscrew will in all likelihood need replacing.

George P.

[edisonrestorer64]

I have a D bedplate ill give it to you just pay me the shipping cost thats all its a bit better see pics. below

[edisonrestorer64]

I will have to agree this I would not bother saveing the pitting is way to bad I am so sorry this is just my humble opnion

all i did all i could do to save this one thats pictured.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks to be completely rusted together, and probably far beyond the reach of restoration.

[edisonrestorer64]

Yes in deed George I have used the acid trick myself on differnt edisons but you need to get an automotive rest preventitive on it right away or it will resust we use an rust inhibitor on our automove projects.

I once saw a Zonophone motor that looked at least as bad as that Home - everything was rusted together. Solid brown. The owner simply submerged it in a bucket of acid and left it there for a day or two. I saw the motor later and couldn't believe it was the same one. It was then completely disassembled (including mainsping & barrel), cleaned & adjusted. After reassembly it ran like a champ. I was amazed.

Of course, there's no feedscrew on a Zonophone. That feedscrew will in all likelihood need replacing.

George P.

[Curt A]

Don't be discouraged by any comments that say this is beyond restoration, because it isn't. It will take a fair amount of time and elbow grease, but the metal used in period phonographs is way superior to today's stuff. The real question is - are you motivated to do it? I like challenges, so the time cost is immaterial to me... if I get a bargain and all it requires is my time, I'm good. Otherwise, if you don't enjoy challenges like this, it would be far easier to buy a good original or restored Edison.

First of all, read the following articles on reverse electrolysis for rust removal - it works wonders and all you do is let it sit in a large plastic (not metal) tub filled with water and "washing soda" (not baking soda) which is available at Walmart from Arm & Hammer, while your electric battery charger does the rest. It might take weeks for it to completely work, but I put an "unrestorable" Honda gas tank in this solution and it removed 40 yrs of dried gas crud and total rust down to bare metal. For a "sacrificial anode", a short piece of re-bar works well - you might want to use several spaced around the tank. The nice thing about this method is that it does not remove excess metal, just rust... You may need to use a wire brush and some sandpaper afterwards to remove any pitting, but at least you can see what you are working with.

I am posting a couple of links for you to research this method, as I think it will prove to be valuable to you: http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/RustRe ... lysis.ashx
http://www.treasureexpeditions.com/reve ... iamson.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/rust.htm

[holmes54]

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions - I really appreciate the words of encouragement!
Curt A thanks for the electrolysis links I had come across the term in web searches and that method looks like a cool option.

I actually had a bit of a break through today with the reproducer arm and the rod it was rusted to - they came apart after 24hrs in vinegar!! It was quite exciting!
It will be a slow job but there's been good metal under all of the rust on the gears around the motor etc.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along - it was great to find this forum!
Thanks everyone-this is fun!