Brunswick Panatrope P-9 or AR 813

[need4art]

OK, Ok, Ok so many machines so little room and money which one given they are close cost and condition the P-9 or the AR 813. Help you brunswick brothers!
Abe

[Skihawx]

I know what the P-9 is, there is one on ebay now. I don't know what an AR-813 is??
I like the electrrola types. I've had a P-11 and a P-3 before. Is the 813 is an acoustic
phonograph with battery radio?? I was wondering if all P-9's have a Jensen speaker? Was
the one on ebay replaced?? The description said it had a 1926 date on the speaker. I thought
it would have had an RCA speaker. Although the P-11 (Cortez with an amplifiere hanging on the
bottom) did not have an RCA driver.

[Kirkwood]

Let me start off by saying I'm no Brunswick expert, although I have owned several and tend to like them as a rule. I'm not familiar with the P-9 at all, but based on my brush with another machine, the AR-813 uses the reworked Radiola AR-812 chassis. There were several Brunswick phono/Radiola combination machines, most from 1924-1925, that used this Radiola superheterodyne chassis. Additionally, there is a stand-alone Brunswick Radiola, housed in a smallish cabinet like the Victrola Consolette, that goes by this same model number. In all the variations, there was a compartment in the back for batteries, and a swing-out door that housed the antenna. There are issues with this Radiola that you will want to look into with the vintage radio pros, not the least of which is the scarcity of the 99 tubes and the servicing of the "catacomb" tuning chassis. RCA would seal the components into a metal canister with a resin-type substance that makes the servicing a tricky proposition. In its day, this Radiola was state of the art and worked well, it was very sensitive. Some collectors have had luck restoring the Radiola to working condition. If you are going to simply use the phonograph portion and keep the Radiola as a display example of the technology of the day, you should be pleased enough. The Brunswicks of this time frequently used a gold finished brass tonearm (even if the Ultona reproducer was still nickel finish pot metal), but the angled needle chuck for Pathé discs is frequently gone by this date. The pull-out knob for the volume control, found on earlier Brunswicks, is usually the control knob to switch from Radiola to phono input, and doesn't control the volume. The sound and performance is much as you'd get from any acoustic era Brunswick, and was pleasant enough.

[Uncle Vanya]

I know what the P-9 is, there is one on ebay now. I don't know what an AR-813 is??
I like the electrrola types. I've had a P-11 and a P-3 before. Is the 813 is an acoustic
phonograph with battery radio?? I was wondering if all P-9's have a Jensen speaker? Was
the one on ebay replaced?? The description said it had a 1926 date on the speaker. I thought
it would have had an RCA speaker. Although the P-11 (Cortez with an amplifiere hanging on the
bottom) did not have an RCA driver.

The P-9 used the smaller catacomb amplifier, a development of the Radiola 102 loudspeaker, using only a single UX-216B, a UX-210, and a UX-199, driving a 100 type balanced armature loudspeaker. Sort of the Brunswick equivilent of the Electrola Cromwell.

The AR-813 is, as noted the flat panel equivalent of the. AR-812 , as used in any number of 1924 and 1925 Brunswick combinations. I hae also seen the. AR-813 installed in a "Radio-Adaptable Victrola" VV-215S, but cannot be sure that this installation had been made in 1925 for the machine turned up in a summer camp on Winnepesauke, and may well have made up later, perhaps around 1930, with the Radiola replacing either a blank panel or a lesser set.

[need4art]

For those of you that have replyed so far "thank you" the AR 813 is on ebay as well. It is a regular wind up , coupled with the radiola. It is very complete and the interior is in very good shape-top needs a bit of work. I figured I would get the radio to work and use a battery elimator to take care of the battery need. I wondered about the Jensen speaker myself as it was common to replace damaged ones with whatever was at hand.

I wish that the AR 813 was all electronic as it would make my decision easier-but if any additional input comes it may make my choice a bit easier.

Of couse waiting for an all electronic unit may be what I should be doing-but you just don't see them that often and the 813 is local and a CAPS member now owns the P-9 and i could get that in Aug at the show.
Abe

[Skihawx]

[quote="Uncle Vanya]
The P-9 used the smaller catacomb amplifier, a development of the Radiola 102 loudspeaker, using only a single UX-216B, a UX-210, and a UX-199, driving a 100 type balanced armature loudspeaker. Sort of the Brunswick equivilent of the Electrola Cromwell. [/quote]

Hi Bob,
I think you are confusing the P-9 with the P-13. I had one of the P-13's and it used the Cromwell type amplifier. The P-9 has the Tomcat shown below. But the speaker still looks funny to me..
Jeff

[Skihawx]

I'd still go with the P-9. I saw it on eBay and wanted it myself. But it oould be located on this side of the country?? California is too far to worry about shipping such a machine. I would not want one of the ultona's with the battery radio. I would use either of them.

[Uncle Vanya]

[quote="Uncle Vanya]
The P-9 used the smaller catacomb amplifier, a development of the Radiola 102 loudspeaker, using only a single UX-216B, a UX-210, and a UX-199, driving a 100 type balanced armature loudspeaker. Sort of the Brunswick equivilent of the Electrola Cromwell.

Hi Bob,
I think you are confusing the P-9 with the P-13. I had one of the P-13's and it used the Cromwell type amplifier. The P-9 has the Tomcat shown below. But the speaker still looks funny to me..
Jeff[/quote][/quote]


A P-9 that I scrapped out about eleven years ago was fitted with the Electrola Cromwell amplifier, and the large cainet-mount version of the 100 speaker. The owner of this interesting machine has another P-9 which is entirely acoustic, with a tag which is engraved "PANATROPE- Exponential Type". Tis machine I see has the full-wave catacomb, but I wonder what loudspeaker was originally fitted to it. That Jensen is investing, but is strictly de trop. An RCA 100 style balanced armature speaker would be an easy matter to find.

[Uncle Vanya]

For those of you that have replyed so far "thank you" the AR 813 is on ebay as well. It is a regular wind up , coupled with the radiola. It is very complete and the interior is in very good shape-top needs a bit of work. I figured I would get the radio to work and use a battery elimator to take care of the battery need. I wondered about the Jensen speaker myself as it was common to replace damaged ones with whatever was at hand.

I wish that the AR 813 was all electronic as it would make my decision easier-but if any additional input comes it may make my choice a bit easier.

Of couse waiting for an all electronic unit may be what I should be doing-but you just don't see them that often and the 813 is local and a CAPS member now owns the P-9 and i could get that in Aug at the show.
Abe

That P-9 has a local cabinet. It is attractive and appears to have a really lovely original finish. the hard work has been done to the amplifier. it wouldn't take much effort to make that machine the centerpiece of a collection. I too wish that California was not so far away.

[Uncle Vanya]

I'd still go with the P-9. I saw it on eBay and wanted it myself. But it oould be located on this side of the country?? California is too far to worry about shipping such a machine. I would not want one of the ultona's with the battery radio. I would use either of them.

Have you seen any AR-813 installations which were original to the 1925 Radio-Adaptable Victrola machines?