Off-brand prices going up - more interest?

[De Soto Frank]

I remember seeing Kimball upright pianos from the early 1900s, that were marginal instruments, but had gorgeous golden "tiger" oak cases... the only "oak" pianos I have ever seen...


Some "off-brand" machines I would like to have:

Vitaphone

Pathé Actuelle paper-cone machine

ornate Silvertone

[Steve]

Going back to the top picture in this thread, I agree it could well be missing a lid which would make it even more impressive. I still think the build quality and design are very good and make it stand out among the rest of the so-called off-brand or lesser machines.

Have you taken any pictures of it all in the dismantled state. It would be good to see!

[SonnyPhono]

Interesting...here is a machine that I started a thread about a long time ago that is obviously made by the same manufacturer.

I wasn't ever able to figure out who made it because like yours, there was no writing or identifying marks anywhere. I chalked it up as a "handyman" phonograph that was cobbled together at some point. I have often thought of that machine though and it's very interesting that yours has now surfaced. Thanks for sharing and please keep us posted if you find anything else out!

[HisMastersVoice]

Some "off-brand" machines I would like to have:

Vitaphone

Pathé Actuelle paper-cone machine

ornate Silvertone

Some may disagree with putting Pathé into the "off-brand" category.

[phonohound]

I like off-brands too, except for when you can't find potmetal parts for them The one off-brand phonograph that really intrigues me is the Brooks Automatic phonograph. To watch it work is amazing and especially since the whole process of starting, playing, and stopping is done mechanically.

I have one in oak and was lucky enough to buy it already working. I wonder how many working Brooks phonographs are around today. It's too bad they used potmetal for the tonearm and support.

By the way, that shell phonograph is amazing. There is another make similar to this principle and it is called the Shell-o-phone. it is un upright model.

[estott]

Some may disagree with putting Pathé into the "off-brand" category.

Pathé in Europe = major manufacturer

Pathé in America = secondary manufacturer, the Actuelle being their only really innovative design.

[briankeith]

SonnyPhono - Those photographs you posted are EXACTLY the same manufacturer because everything is in the same location (and design) including the four big nickel bolts (or) slotted studs, plus all the controls, wood pillars, even the metal support where the crank handle goes in through the side case. Even the small turntable and what I can barely make out of the small single spring motor. Exactly the same, except for the faux wood big metal drum mine has! Your photos looks to have glass side panels of some kind. Glass? We gotta find out who made these strange looking machines. And I am sure this machine never had a lid - no signs of a hinge or other lid attachments. No lid I am sure now.

[Uncle Vanya]

Some "off-brand" machines I would like to have:

Vitaphone

Pathé Actuelle paper-cone machine

ornate Silvertone

Some may disagree with putting Pathé into the "off-brand" category.

Well, their first U. S. products were built for them by The American Graphophone Co, save forthe improted Pathé reproducers.. Their later products were assembled of cabinets from various sources, motors supplied by Heinemann, or Meisselbach, and tone arms made to their order either by Heineimann or another LIC die casting firm.

The Actuelle still used Heinemann motors, save for the few electric examples, which were fitted with Burns-Pollack motors. I don't know who built the Actuelle reproducing mechanism, but it was unlike anything the firm offered in Europe. It shared components with a number of radio loud-speakers of the 1924 period which were offered to the trade by LIC firms.

[estott]

I don't know who built the Actuelle reproducing mechanism, but it was unlike anything the firm offered in Europe. It shared components with a number of radio loud-speakers of the 1924 period which were offered to the trade by LIC firms.

Just throwing a supposition out there, possibly it was made by Saal? They built phonograph motors & parts, then switched to building an extensive line of cone radio speakers.

[SonnyPhono]

SonnyPhono - Those photographs you posted are EXACTLY the same manufacturer...And I am sure this machine never had a lid - no signs of a hinge or other lid attachments. No lid I am sure now.

I agree, these were definitely made by the same company. The one I found was in an antique store nearby and sat for a year or so at a price that was unbelievably low. I never bought it because I had suspicions that it was a reproduction or something cobbled together at some point due to the price. Now I'm kicking myself for not buying it.

The person selling the one I found has been collecting for 60 years. He told me that it was a display machine of some sort and that's all he knew. He mentioned that it could have been used by a dealer to help demonstrate how a phonograph worked but wasn't positive of that. It has 3 glass sides to show the horn construction as well as the motor during play. There were no identifying marks anywhere on the machine including the reproducer. The lid was metal and matched the machine in color. It fit the machine perfectly and rested on top being held in place by the four bolts on the corners.

Like I said, I had my doubts about it being a display machine until seeing yours. After thinking about it, maybe it was indeed made for display purposes and more specifically, was used to show the way a Victrola was constructed. Maybe they produced your machine with the drum-like resonator/horn and to demonstrate the difference between their "new innovative" design, they also made some demo models like the one I found with glass sides to show a typical Victrola horn. The horn on the one I found was very cheap being made of cardboard taped at the seams and a flimsy metal tube that connected the horn to the tonearm base. The metal lid resembled the shape of a Victrola lid as well so maybe it was indeed made to imitate a Victrola and was used to compare the design differences in a dealer's store.

Thoughts?