Columbia Viva-Tonal model 800

[Uncle Vanya]

Just dug photographs of this rather uncommon machine out from storage. Please pardon the poor quality of the flash photographs, but the machine is extremely heavy and I had no help available to take it into the daylight.

The machine itself is actually in very nice original condition. It bears a shellac finish, which is checked to some extent, but will polish out nicely. Note the unusual horn construction. The original grille cloth is torn, unfortunately, but at least the grille is in nice shape. This machine sounds very nice. A rebuilt Viva-Tonal reproducer coupled with this massive horn produces an impressive sound indeed.

This machine is rather larger than a Credenza, and is most considerably heavier. I find the almost Arts and Crafts asthetic of the design of this machine to be quite attractive.

For some reason, the slightly more expensive 810, with its mahogany veneer and polychrome trim is much more commonly found these days.

[theoldlefthander]

I've got the same phonograph. I didn't realize they had doors. Duh makes sense. They are a pig! Nice machines.

[marcapra]

Thanks for posting pics of this rare Credenza rival. I have a Brunswick Cortez and a Victrola 8-35 last of the Orthophonics. I like the tone arm on this and the doors and the big size, and the massive neck is gigantic! The look of the horn itself compared to the Credenza or the Cortez is a phonographic nightmare! But it wasn't meant to be looked at. Hey, here's an idea. Put this big Viva-tonal, the Victrola Credenza or 8-35, and the Brunswick Cortez behind a curtain and have a battle of the machines. Play one electric and one acoustic record on each machine while the phonograph club rates the sound on cards for machine A, B, and C. Then add up the scores and see how they rate. Question: Does this model have a back or is it missing? I saw a Columbia phonograph ad from 1928 showing all the Viva-tonal models for sale. This 800 and the 810 were already missing from the lineup just two years after introduction. They only mentioned a few acoustic machines such as the newer 820 and the rest were the new electronic Viva Tonal 900 models.

[Uncle Vanya]

Yes, this machine has a back. I removed it before moving the machine so that I might have some place to grab on, and so that when I photographed the machine we might be able to see the internal construction of the horn.
This is a 1926 model which was offered well into 1927 before being replaced by the rather more lightly built 820.

[gregbogantz]

The relative audio performance merits of the big horn Victors and Columbias has been discussed on several threads here in the past. Do a search on the model numbers in these archives to read more.

I have the Victor Credenza, the 10-50 (with similar horn), the 10-35 (same horn as the 8-35) and the Columbia 810, although I don't have them all in the same location which makes the direct comparisons impossible. Still, my impressions are that both the Victors are superior to the Columbia. The Credenza and 10-50 are probably my favorites with the bass slightly more extended than the 10-35. But the metal horn of the 10-35 is a little brighter sounding, so each has its merits, depending on your preference. The Columbia 800 series horn is not acoustically correct - it is NOT exponential in flare. It is still an impressive sounding machine, but it is decidedly duller than the Victors and the bass is sadly not as satisfying as in the big Victors, either. I have not heard the mid-size horn of the Columbia 700 series, but the smaller 600 series of VivaTonals is fully comparable to the small Victor orthos such as the 4-3. The biggest problem with the Columbias is that their #15 reproducer is not as good as the Victor #5 ortho. Fitting a Victor reproducer to a Columbia makes a noticeable improvement in them. Better treble, better bass, less distortion.

[marcapra]

Greg, How would you rate the Brunswick version of a Credenza, the Cortez, to both a Credenza and a Columbia Viva-Tonal 800? Does a Victrola orthophonic reproducer fit a Columbia tone arm?

[AZ*]

I own a Columbia VT 800, and I agree with Uncle V. It's big and heavy. It's an interesting machine and worth having in a collection. Bass performance is not as good as the large Victor Orthophonics.

I prefer the metal horn Orthophonics due to their superior mid-range performance. I own several Credenzas and a VV 8-9X. The 8-9X has a metal horn like the 8-35, and I prefer its performance to the Credenzas.

[Uncle Vanya]

The performance of my 800 was disappointing until I cast a new soft rubber isolator for the reproducer. The improvement offered by the new, flexible reproducer mount was astounding. Bass response was greatly improved. zI find that the mid-rang and upper range reproduction of these large Columbia machines is quite fine. When engaging in side-by-side comparison, one might say that one could be happy with either were the other dear charmer away.

My favorite American machine is the 8-35, but even it as some sonic "rough patches". The extraordinary thing about a good large Viva-Tonal machine is the overall smoothness of its reproduction. The "presence" and sense of space is greater than that offered by similar Victor products, for some reason, rather akin to listening to one of those immense British open horn machines.

[alang]

The performance of my 800 was disappointing until I cast a new soft rubber isolator for the reproducer. The improvement offered by the new, flexible reproducer mount was astounding.

What did you use to cast the new soft rubber isolator? And what material did you use for the mold? Or is anyone supplying these now?

Thanks
Andreas

[OrthoSean]

I was wondering the same thing Andreas. I have a 711 which luckily has a nice original soft and pliable isolator, but I'd like to have a replacement available.

Sean