Columbia Viva-Tonal model 800

[Uncle Vanya]

I used red high temperature silicone rubber, and for the mold I used parts of a spare reproducer held in the proper relation to one another with a couple of wood blocks and a nut and bolt. the screw holes were made by placing bits of brass tubing of appropriate length around the shafts of the back screws and installing them in their appropriate sockets. After the silicone sets, a bit of trimming with a razor blade and the outfit is ready to go.

[marcapra]

[/quote]The Columbia 800 series horn is not acoustically correct - it is NOT exponential in flare. It is still an impressive sounding machine, but it is decidedly duller than the Victors and the bass is sadly not as satisfying as in the big Victors, either. I have not heard the mid-size horn of the Columbia 700 series, but the smaller 600 series of VivaTonals is fully comparable to the small Victor orthos such as the 4-3. The biggest problem with the Columbias is that their #15 reproducer is not as good as the Victor #5 ortho. Fitting a Victor reproducer to a Columbia makes a noticeable improvement in them. Better treble, better bass, less distortion.[/quote]

Greg, something here doesn't make sense to me. You say the biggest problem with the Viva-tonals is their #15 reproducer. But then you say that the small Viva-tonal 600 series is fully comparable to the small Victrola orthophonics. If the Columbia #15 reproducer is the main fault with the Viva-tonal line, how could the small Viva-tonals be equal to the small Victrolas, since all the Viva-tonals have the #15 reproducer?

[gregbogantz]

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my comparison of the 600 series VivaTonals with the small Victor orthos. I have both the Columbia 613 and the Victor 4-3. They sound about the same when the same reproducer is used on them. No, the Columbia #15 will not interchange with the Victor #5 directly. but I have made a set of adaptor rings that allows either repro to be used on either brand of machine which is how I made my comparisons.

I don't own any of the Brunswick Panatropes, and I have not heard the large Brunswick Cortez, so I can't comment on that. I have heard one of the smaller Panatropes and it is very good sounding. But I haven't directly compared it with a similarly sized Victor. Again, the Brunswick Panatrope reproducer will not directly interchange with either the Columbia or the Victor, so you would have to make adaptors to interchange the reproducers.

[marcapra]

Greg, thanks for the explanation. One question I have is why do I keep hearing of Viva-tonal models that are not included in the Baumbach book? For example, I've seen a 711 model on Youtube, but the book says there are a 700, 710, and a 721 model. The book is also missing the 1928 model 820 Viva-Tonal. Is the book just incomplete?

[beaumonde]

I think the book is incomplete. There are also portable models around that are not in the Baumbach Columbia book (e.g. the Viva-tonal 160). He seems to have relied on contemporaneous advertising, and if the record is spotty on certain models, so would be his coverage of them. So to be fair, a bit of the blame has to be ascribed to the Columbia Phonograph Co. itself, which does not seem to have been as organized and well-funded as Victor in the advertising or listing of various models produced.

[marcapra]

Adam, Yes I think you're right that the book is incomplete as far as showing all the models. My question is this. I've seen pics and videos of a 710 and a 711 model. But I can't see any difference to them. I know that the 700 and 800 models were the plainer ones without the painted decorations, and with walnut cabinets. And I know that the 710 and 810 models were the fancy ones with painted flowers and mahogany cabinets. Is the 711 perhaps a Canadian model, or just a later offering with a slight difference from a 710?

[OrthoSean]

I own a 711. I'm pretty sure the only difference between the 710 and the 711 is the motor. The 711 has a very heavy duty Garrard motor in it. This particular machine that I have was sold in upstate NY when it was new. I don't know of any reason why they went to the Garrard motor, but it appears to have been later in production if I were to hazard a guess.

Sean

[marcapra]

I talked to Uncle Vanya today and he confirmed what you said about the 711 being a later model with a Garrard motor. What motor did the earlier ones have?

[gregbogantz]

The subject of the Columbia 810 came up again recently with regard to how the cabinet was finished and how it differs from the plainer model 800. The 810 cabinet has several painted features and a painted flower decoration in the center of the upper front of the cabinet. I have seen several 810s and they seem to be a little different from each other. I suspect that the painted features were hand-painted at the factory and so there is some variability among the machines. Also, the (apparently) toned lacquer finish has blended tones which were also done by hand and also look different from one to another example. Below are pictures of my 810.

[marcapra]

Greg, You have the most gorgeous 810 I've ever seen! The painted parts are usually faded on the ones I've seen. Did you have the paintings restored?