Pathéphone N°2 - Novice questions

[Tiwi]

Hello everyone,

I am from Paris, France and I got recently interested in talking machines. I am seeking for some advices in this forum since I recently purchased this Pathéphone N°2.

I was surprise about the Pathéphone and the needles shown in the small add and the pictures, so I asked him. The seller told me he was not an expert but the needle fit the membrane (reproducer). What do you think about it ?

Also, is there any missing part between the horn and the reproducer following the pictures ?

Thank you very much in advance !

Tiwi

[Sidewinder]

Hello,

The reproducer requires a special needle with a "sapphire" and not the steel needles that you show in the photo. The reproducer may have the correct sapphire needle, I just cannot see it in the photo. The reproducer type you show is designed for vertical cut records, ie "Pathé style". The usual type of records are lateral cut - the grooves are side to side rather than up & down. Pathé records should be easy top find in Paris.

If you show a picture of the reverse of the reproducer we can see if there is an adaptor piece missing. Normally with the boxed reproducers there should be an extension on the back of the reproducer which has a screw in the far end that fits a short slot in the playing arm.

[Tiwi]

Hi Sidewinder,

Thanks for your reply ! I actually did not receive the objet yet. I asked the seller if he could provide me with a detail picture of the reproducer so we can see.

I heard there are equal quantity of vertical and lateral cut records in France but is it possible to set a reproducer for lateral cut with this Pathéphone ?

Thanks !

Tiwi

[Curt A]

I have that same reproducer on a Fairy Phonograph Lamp and it will play standard 78's if rotated using steel needles. For Pathé records you set the reproducer as it is shown in the picture and use a sapphire needle. Mine will also play Edison Diamond Disc records when using a diamond needle in the Pathé position... So I think yours will also. I'm not sure if your tonearm allows for the reproducer to be rotated, but the reproducer is capable of playing different types of records, if it can be rotated. Since your tonearm is straight, I think it may require an adapter of some sort to play other records. My tonearm has a slight bend at the end, which allows the reproducer to be rotated vertically.

[Curt A]

Here is what I mean. These pictures show the reproducer in the "standard" 78 record position and also in the Pathé or Edison Diamond Disc position... hope this helps.

[Curt A]

Diamond and Sapphire needles...

[Curt A]

Here is a link where you can get information in Paris...
http://www.phonogalerie.com/lang-francais/

[estott]

There are lateral attachments for this style of Pathé, but they may be hard to obtain. Keep this one for Pathé vertical discs and buy another machine for your laterals.

[Steve]

So you bought this Pathé, hey? I had that in my eBay watch but forgot to check it until it was too late! Isn't it odd how you can buy a near enough complete Pathé horn machine for less than £200 when you would be lucky to buy a Victor/HMV back-bracket and tone-arm assembly for that!

Anyway this Pathé No. 2 I guess dates from about 1912-14? It does not have an adaptable tone-arm. As Sidewinder has already said there should be a short length of black or red rubber tubing from the rear flange of the soundbox. It will have a clamping ring over the soundbox end to hold it in place and at the other end a short tubular section of brass (plated with nickel) with a bolt through with knurled head. This can be tightened against a leather washer once that the tube has been inserted into the end of the tone-arm. The horizontal slot in the arm allows the bolt to pass through the top. Once in place, it can be clamped tight together to secure the soundbox assembly.

You will notice that this is an ingenious design, pre-dating fictitious claims by parsons in England by some 20 years, that they had invented something called the "Lifebelt" - a rubber connector between soundbox and rigid arm. The benefits of this arrangement are numerous and it greatly improves the sound reproduction, partly by COMPLETELY isolating the soundbox from the heavier mechanical parts of the gramophone / vibration from the motor. The soundbox can also track the groove a little more freely with the flexible connector. This is a Pathé design from 1905 and the company was quick to recognise its benefits. The 'Lifebelt' later discussed in The Gramophone is the same identical thing, nothing new by 1920.

Estott is right to say that in order to play lateral discs you will need ANOTHER Pathé soundbox complete with a 90 degree elbow that permits a connection into the tone-arm, giving the soundbox and tone-arm a parallel setup, like most other conventional disc machines. The original soundbox that comes with this machine should be positioned to be perpendicular with the tone-arm and sits across the end of it.

Well done on a great buy!

[zapper]

Hi Tiwi
Thought you maybe interested in a couple of photographs of my Pathé Reproducer and connector, possibly what you need to complete your new gramophone. The connector in the photo is approximately 6cm long and has a loose ring which mounts on the back of your soundbox and a screw fitting which slides into the arm. The other photo shows a part of the connector still attached to the soundbox. The sapphire stylus, which maybe in your soundbox will play centre start Hill and Dale records at 90rpm. You will need a 90 degree elbow attachment to fit a suitable soundbox to play lateral cut records. Good Luck
Regards