Cylinder Diaphragm Tone Test

[Lucius1958]

I'd need to hear some band, orchestra, and vocal records. The banjo's sound is high-pitched & mostly percussive, making it ideal for acoustic recording but poor for judging sound quality.

Suggestions: BA 1775 - Dream Melody Intermezzo , BA 1885 - Shepherd's Dance , BA 2039 Gold & Silver .... or any post-1910, pre-dubbed Band, Orchestra, Venetian Instrumental Trio/Quartet, etc etc ... An excellent choice might be the medley of 'Country Dances' by Eugene Jaudas, BA 1716 - between the fiddle & the band, it puts a reproducer through the wringer!

Oh, PS: #2 and #3 sound about the same to me, both much clearer than #1 .

The other selections I have used will be #2499, "Every Valley Shall be Exalted" by Reed Miller, and #1888, "Marching Through Georgia" by Frederick Wheeler and chorus (I had originally included #1501, "Semiramide Overture" by the American Standard Orchestra, but found it too wobbly for a good test).

Bill

[larryh]

I see that Bill has kindly put up a set of test of the diaphragm for cylinder edison machines.. I too would be inclined to want to hear something instrumental to give a more rounded picture of the sound.. That said this is one of the first times I personally have heard the diaphragms at all.

As an explanation of what is going on with them I have to step back here a moment. I have done very little in the way of promoting a cylinder version of the True Tone style diaphragm I have for the Disc Edisons. I personally have no cylinder machines. I started to make some attempts at a small version when Steven Medved requested that I try to make him some to see if they would be suitable for some of his customers.. I made several and sent them to him.. He played them and found them to have better overall sound than what he was using. He has installed probably 10 or more of them so far. However he has been the one to "weed" though the ones I have made to choose the ones he felt best. In reality I think most of them have turned out to be satisfactory. Still unlike the larger True Tone since I can't hear it on my end I have no way to know what I have sent someone. Thus as a test I sent Bill two of them that he could try them and see how they compared to what he had. I would have to say the operatic versions he put up first without any fanfare on his Lucius 1958 site a few weeks ago and on here as well were the very first time I heard them play at all. I was reasonably happy when I heard them, in fact for not ever hearing one I thought the sound was pretty good.

I have not tried to sell any beyond what Steven has installed since I had no way to tell which were successful. The two I sent Bill were actually ones I wasn't quite pleased with the way the links were installed, but it seems that isn't an issue. If I did sell any it would only be with the understanding that if its not satisfactory it should be returned for a refund. I have not yet decided to pursue that idea.

[Lucius1958]

Here is part 2 of the tone test: BA #2499, "Every Valley Shall be Exalted":

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmvxfebW2gA[/youtube]

I have also added these videos to the playlist for the disc diaphragms.

Bill

[Lucius1958]

And now, the third video: BA #1888, "Marching Through Georgia", with its soft and loud passages:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_q6e5qfdqg[/youtube]

Bill

In my own opinion, I tend to prefer the #2; the #3 has a little more brightness, but seems to bring out more surface noise on the 30. How it would fare on a machine with a wooden Cygnet horn is another matter .

[52089]

I like 2 and 3, but I'm leaning towards 3, even with somewhat increased surface noise.

I'd also like to hear how these do on a later dubbed cylinder.

[larryh]

When the selections are played I have often wondered if the greater volume is the reason that more distortion is heard due to the louder over all sound or if the diaphragms are responsible for it ? I didn't notice much of it on your first Opera selections so it makes me think that the quieter sound of the #1 might mask the defects of the record while the louder amplification brings it out more? This is one of the pitfalls of not having a way to hear them on my end. On the disc machine True Tones I pretty much have noticed that if I hear an issue on the records and think its the diaphragm, often if I switch to another diaphragm of either mine or an original or other reproduction the same issues are apparent but not always as pronounced. The fact that I am at least getting more sound would seem to indicate that most of it is amplified so that it is more apparent? But I am not ruling out an issue with the diaphragms either..


Larry

[CarlosV]

2 and 3 are much better than 1, however I do not hear any significant different between 2 and 3 - some distortion appears here and there, however its soruce cannot be discerned if from the diaphragms, from the original recording or from one of the multiple stages of the youtube reproduction. The videos are all very well made, congratulations! Which of the three is the reproduction rice paper?

[larryh]

Carlos,

In reality #2 and #3 are the same basic design. Not really meant to be different. But as in all things made by hand they will vary, and since when I make them I can't hear them I have no way to know how they end up till I hear from someone who is installing them. Bill has been kind enough to go to the trouble to produce these videos so I could hear how they compared to another diaphragm, (in this case #1) and how if any the two diaphragms varied in sound. I agree the difference is not very noticeable so that means they are somewhat close.. I have the same issues with the disc versions which I can hear. They can be somewhat louder one to the other, or some seem to have a bit more bass than another, but in either case they usually play well and generally are better than what someone has if its in need of replacement.

If I were able to test them myself I could perhaps then know if some slight changes in design were responsible for the distortion we hear here or if its the record. As I mentioned some of the recordings he has produced with it are quite loud and quite clear, so where the issue is remains a mystery.. From many probably thousands of hours of listening now to records testing the other diaphragms I know that a truly clean playing record is somewhat rare and most times when I hear issues I can see in the grooves the slight wear that can cause edison records to become fuzzy or buzzy sounding.

Larry

[CarlosV]

Larry, your diaphragms sound very good even through the youtube filterings. As to distortions, I learned to be complacent with them, in many cases they are inherent to the records, even directly transferred amberols, after all these were acoustic recordings and the staff had very little leeway to maneuver during the recording, and would declare victory when the piece reached its end with the recording lathe still sitting on the wax. I agree that distortions can appear from very subtle worn areas of the disc/cylinder, and DDs in particular can be very misleading - look great and sound awful.

[Lucius1958]

Part 4 is now up: "Orpheus Overture", by the American Standard Orchestra:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTB00Ka8WZ8[/youtube]