For Sale: Victor I with Concert Reproducer and Large Horn

[long_island_phono]

I am putting my Victor I up for sale here on the forum as I unfortunately must part ways with it. It's a neat original upgraded machine in nice shape. **Due to two requests for a value in the listing I will provide my 'asking' price, which is $1150. If you are interested please feel welcome to let me know your thoughts.

Note that I will happily pay for shipping if it is within the US and am willing to discuss shipping costs for those out of the country.

Info:

The motor is strong and pretty quiet as far as early Victors go and the turntable felt is original. The slotted crank is original, as is the tonearm and horn elbow and elbow extension upgrade.

Interestingly, a concert reproducer was found on this little machine and, as is the case with most, it will need to be rebuilt. The cabinet has its original finish with a nice dataplate. The back bracket is clean with wear towards the top. The large 16 ¾" horn is in decent shape with light surface rust here and there.


Additional pictures and details can be provided upon request.


Best Regards,

Jake

[Jerry B.]

Great machine and good description and photos. Why don't you include the price? Thanks, Jerry

[long_island_phono]

Jerry,

My original post has now been updated with a price for the machine.

Best Regards,

Jake

[brianu]

this machine is apparently still available, being resold on ebay now (141030227517) by debrasonsflower, only now with the original concert reproducer swapped out for a basic exhibition. so much for historical integrity.

[SonnyPhono]

so much for historical integrity.

I'm surprised you just assumed the Concert reproducer was original to this machine without any substantiated reasoning. When I saw this machine for the first time, I thought the opposite. I would imagine that the only reason someone would have paid for an upgrade in horn size along with the necessary adapter was strictly for sound improvement. If that's the case, why would they have opted for the Concert reproducer instead of the superior Exhibition that had been around for awhile by that point? Both reproducers were offered at that time and at the same cost for that matter. So to me, one or the other was out of place and not original to the machine.

I didn't remove the Concert based on this though. It makes logical sense, but isn't enough proof to destroy the "historical integrity". So I checked the serial numbers on the machine and the Concert to compare. The serial # on the Concert is substantially lower than the machine's. Considering the Concert was used on many models, it wouldn't make sense that it has such a low serial # compared to the machine. The machine was produced somewhere around 1906 or 1907. The Concert had been around for a long time at that point and was issued with many models in the Victor lineup, not just the Vic I of course. I would have thought it might be original to the machine if it's serial # was higher than the machine. But being so much lower, I believe it was added at some point by a collector to make the machine that much more interesting.

There is more evidence that it probably wasn't original to the machine compared to evidence that it was. Regardless of all this, I can't be positive that it isn't original. But you can't be positive that I have ruined the historical integrity either.

If my thoughts and reasoning doesn't hold water or the serial # situation is irrelevant, I would appreciate any insight. I do make mistakes and would rather cause friction with current bidders by ending the auction early to re-list it with the Concert if I am completely wrong here.

[gramophone78]

Jake (I had Sonny on my mind.. ), since it is your machine......selling it any way you see proper is fine.

There is one good way to test if a machine came with a concert or not. If you place the concert on and place the "U" tube down in "play" position......if the "U" tube is now level with the rest of the arm......it was originally equipped with a concert.
Collectors over the years notice how many machines (Victor horn models) with a Exhibition will see the "U" tube while in play with a upward tilt. That is because the Exhibition is a larger diameter to a concert.
The same rule if a machine is with a level arm with an Exhibition....if level, it came with a Exhibition.

One last point.....the Victor tone arm is designed so that when the "U" tube is level.....the inner opening is wide open for sound transfer. Anything up or down from level retards the inner opening.

[brianu]

There is one good way to test if a machine came with a concert or not. If you place the concert on and place the "U" tube down in "play" position......if the "U" tube is now level with the rest of the arm......it was originally equipped with a concert.
Collectors over the years notice how many machines (Victor horn models) with a Exhibition will see the "U" tube while in play with a upward tilt. That is because the Exhibition is a larger diameter to a concert.
The same rule if a machine is with a level arm with an Exhibition....if level, it came with a Exhibition.

well, then judging from the photos above with the concert (and the U-tube in proper playing horizontal position) and the new ones on ebay with the exhibition (and the U-tube at the improper upward angle when in playing position), I guess we've got our answer. but no matter.

Sonny, since it is your machine......selling it any way you see proper is fine.

it's unfortunate when such an obviously knowledgeable collector starts quoting from the neelam playbook.

[whoopinola]

Of course I had to verify the sloping U tube information....Vic-III with exibition level....Vic-I with exibition sloping....hmmmmmm....The exibition on the Vic-I appeared to be on it since new..everything had aged to the same degree..If a dealer upgraded from a concert to an exibition at time of sale , was the tonearm changed as well , to maintain a level stance...this is very interesting...thanks

[gramophone78]

Of course I had to verify the sloping U tube information....Vic-III with exibition level....Vic-I with exibition sloping....hmmmmmm....The exibition on the Vic-I appeared to be on it since new..everything had aged to the same degree..If a dealer upgraded from a concert to an exibition at time of sale , was the tonearm changed as well , to maintain a level stance...this is very interesting...thanks

I don't want to highjack Jake's "for sale" thread. However, I just want to add that period customers (as mentioned in LFD) could make a choice to upgrade (at a cost) to a Exhibition....while the concert was available.

Therefore, selling this or any of these machines with either reproducer can be considered "historically correct". A tone arm change would not correct this. Where the factory drilled the back bracket holes is what counts.

I'm only going to write this one last time.....I do not condone or approve of this certain sellers ways Brianu mentions. So much so, that I don't think he should be even brought up on our forum. Giving them exposure here will "not" change their ways. All it does is upset "most of us" to what they are doing and "most" are only too aware as we all look at Ebay.
I do not know the seller or their name nor have I ever dealt with them. However, they can and will do what they please and my point is......they can do that whether you like it or not.

BTW, I quote from my "own" playbook and no one else's.

Again, I'm sorry Jake for this. I hope that the info I provided was of some use.

[brianu]

I only want to point out that this is not sonny's for sale thread. the original poster listed this machine for sale here and then on ebay last week while emphasizing the uniqueness of the set-up as whole, with the concert reproducer and the larger horn and adapter. sonny bought it from him and is now just flipping it, relisting the bulk of the set-up on ebay while substituting a basic exhibition reproducer for the concert.

sure, looked at most basely, owners can freely do pretty much whatever they want with their belongings. similarly, others can freely comment on that, and such should particularly be expected among a community of collectors in an online forum geared to preserving certain forms of material history and culture.