Slightly OT: Ceramic Cartridges

[Shane]

I picked up one of those low-end BSR changers from the 1970s today. They're actually not bad players for someone looking to play some 78s.

However, I've always been a bit confused by the cartridge setup on these. These use the "flip over needle" style cartridges. If I plug the record player into an auxiliary input on my amplifier, the sound is distant and tinny... not as bad as if I were plugging a magnetic cartridge into an aux input, but still pretty bad. However, if I plug it into a phono input, the gain of the cartridge is too high, and the thing distorts.

I've seen (cheap) amplifiers from the 1970s that are suitable for use with these type of changers. But seemingly, if you have an amplifier that is of any quality, you can't use these types of record players. I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing here... any ideas? It just seems strange to me that a company would market a type of record player that is basically incompatible with 90% of all the amplifiers out there.

[WDC]

Such cartridges were used in a huge variety of record players for long time. Whenever I had a ceramic cartridge to use, I always connected it directly to the amplifier's line-in input where the sound was quite reasonable. This did even work with with the computer. Do you have the possibility to try a different ceramic cartridge and/or needle?

[Viva-Tonal]

Crystal and ceramic pickups need to feed very high input impedance circuitry to have any bass response. Typically on tube equipment long ago, this was perhaps from 470 K Ω on up to several megohms.

Modern stereo gear intended for CD players and such like may only have a 10 k Ω input impedance, too low for those pickups.

[Shane]

Thanks for the info... its definitely the bass response that is missing. Its just strange that this record player is from the 1970s, and if I use a 1970s amp with it, the results are bad. I've tried several different ceramic cartridge record players over the years, with the same result.

[gregbogantz]

Viva-Tonal is correct. Ceramic cartridges require a VERY high input impedance to keep their bass response. Most newer, small cartridge elements should be loaded by at least 3 megohms. Using the RIAA-equalized magnetic cartridge input is NOT correct and will result in too much gain, too much bass, and no treble. Some (only a few) hifi amplifiers had special inputs designed with this Hi-Z input and specifically labeled as ceramic or "constant amplitude" cartridge inputs. And console manufacturers that made high quality sets using ceramic cartridges (like Magnavox and Zenith) designed their amps with a sufficiently Hi-Z input to work properly with these cartridges. Typical tube amps had around 500K to 1Meg input impedance in their "aux" or other high level inputs. These don't sound too bad with ceramic carts, but a higher impedance is better. Transistor amps have only about 10k ohms or so input impedance on their standard hi-level inputs and really roll off the bass from ceramic carts. To use a ceramic cart these days, you need to either get an old tube preamp (without RIAA EQ), get a preamp from a Magnavox or Zenith console, or design your own hi-Z amp circuit. That's what I have done, and it works great. The best of these cartridges can sound fully as good as a magnetic when used with the proper preamp.

[gramophoneshane]

I hate to say it Shane, but I've never heard a BSR that sounds good yet. I think you're better off with a cheap Garrard or Collaro than a medium range BSR. I know any TT's sound quality mostly relies on the needle, cartridge, amp & speakers, but these always sound bad to my ears. I've always called them "British Scratchy Reproduction" turntables

[Shane]

Okay, so I did some more investigation into this problem I'm having. The amplifier I had been using was a circa 1973 Pioneer amplifier. It sounded horrible.

Just for curiosity's sake, I tried plugging the changer into a circa 1979 Marantz amplifier. I tried both the tuner and aux inputs. Surprisingly, the thing worked perfectly in both inputs... sounded great. How strange!!

I do agree about the lesser sound quality of these units, but they do have their advantages. These ceramic cheap-o cartridges, due to their lack of sensitivity, can make beat up vinyl records sound decent, giving much more satisfying results than a magnetic cartridge that is going to pick up every single imperfection.

[bbphonoguy]

Uhhh...is there some way to ban "stuv218" from making any more postings?

[Shane]

Seems like he has fascinating insight into the proper method of wiring ceramic cartridges.