Victor II Phonograph ID Plate - Originally Nickel?

[Garret]

Another easy way to restore ID plates is to simply use a cheap brush plater which are available on line.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plug-N-Plate-Ni ... 536wt_1192

You can use this plating system on many of your smaller phonograph parts during a restoration project also.

First clean the plate and give the entire plate a coat of black lacquer not too heavy just an even coat.

Once the plate has dried completely, put a little rubbing compound and water on a perfectly flat surface, (I like to use a small piece of glass). Now with the face of the ID plate down, slide the plate around pushing the plate down into the compound using an even pressure. The use of a small piece of wood a bit smaller then the plate size will help keep an even downward pressure but it is not necessary..

The point here is to remove the lacquer from all the high points on the plate and soon you will start to see raw brass.

*** These high points are the part that are to be plated in the next step. ***

You can occasionally wash the plate off and check your progress to make sure you removed all the lacquer in the proper areas. You can also use a Q-tip dipped in some compound to do some of the fine detail work if needed but don't get too picky. Keep in mind what the plate looked like before you started and also the fact that it's 100 years old.

It might sound a little complicated but it is really easy.

If you do rub too hard you might get into the black background but it's easy to correct. Just thoroughly dry the plate, shoot some more lacquer on it and start the sanding/lacquer removing process over again.

Once you are happy with the piece, all the high areas should be a shiny bright brass.

Make sure the plate is clean & dry and try not to touch the plating surfaces with your fingers as you could have some natural oil on your hand. Hold it by the edges or use rubber gloves.

Now hook up the the plating pad or brush with the wires and alligator clips provided. The power supply can be a couple of 1 ½ volt batteries if you like but most kits come with a 4 ½ volt plugin power supply.

The positive lead goes on the brush and the negative lead clips onto the plate..(be careful not to scratch the plate).

HERE'S THE FUN PART

Now wet the pad/brush with the the nickel solution and using a slight pressure apply it to the plate. Always keep the pad/brush moving and don't stay in one spot too long. Keep moving the pad/brush around the plate with the solution on it. The soluction will not hurt the black lacquer finish but try to concentrate on the exposed brass details.

Thats it,, right before you eye you will see the nickel transfer to your ID plate in just the places that you want it. The whole process will take you less then an hour..

I have used it many times and have had great success with it.

fmblizz

Hello!

Thank you for the input! That said, the ID plate is clearly silver plated. Is there another way to clean the ID plate of crud, instead of rubbing it?

[fmblizz]

I am curious why you think it is silver plated and not nickel plated??

Thank being said, you can try cleaning with something very mild and work your way up. Once you go to far you can't go back.

Good luck

blizz

[Uncle Vanya]

Because nickle does not need to be lacquered, as were the original silver colored Victor tags of the pre-1914 period, and had a nickle plated tag been lacquered it would not turn black where ever the original lacquer was rubbed off, and if it for some reason had turned black, the corrosion would not be reduced back to metallic silver by a soda-aluminum bath, as it has on quite a number of plated that I have had. In addition, the manufacturer of many of the original plates wrote their specs for matte silver.

[Garret]

I am curious why you think it is silver plated and not nickel plated??

Thank being said, you can try cleaning with something very mild and work your way up. Once you go to far you can't go back.

Good luck

blizz

Blizz,

I tested the back of the plate for silver, and it tested positive for the metal. It's a bit of a surprise, as I had assumed that the plate was plated with nickel.

[fmblizz]

Learning something new every day.... that why I like this forum..

Since silver is much softer than nickel, this would explain why so many of these plates have the silver worn down to the point that they have to be restored. Good thing they didn't use silver on the tonearms.. LOL

Since silver & nickle basically look identical and given the fact that nickle is much harder and the process for restoring is the same, I think I will definately be sticking with the nickle finish..

blizz

[Garret]

I spoke with a plater, and he suggested that the tag might be made of a silver-bearing nickel plate, as opposed to a straight silvering finish that Uncle Vanya mentioned. Any thoughts? I'm just curious, as I'd like to restore this plate properly!

[Uncle Vanya]

No. The plates were coated with pure silver. This is a very simple process, which was comonly used on an industrial scale at the turn of the last century.

The plate is cleaned chemically and then scratch-brushed to raise a matte surface (I generally raise a matte surface in my soda blasting cabinet, but a brass-bristled brush or a bot of 400 girt sand paper will do the trick). One can then fill the background with black paint, touch up the high points with the 400 grit paper, and then gently rub the surface of the plate with solver chloride solution, depositing a thin layer of pure metallic silver on the work.

Here one may find a pretty good set of instructions for silvering a clock dial:

http://www.davewestclocks.co.uk/silveri ... _dials.htm

Here:

http://skeletonclocks.eu.com/the-english-worksop

A really excllent account form the Phila. museum here:

http://www.philamuseum.org/booklets/7_44_85_1.html

and another here; the NAWCC's "Resilvering for Newbies"

http://mb.nawcc.org/archive/index.php/t-7751.html

It is really pretty simple, inexpensive, and leaves the p;ate with the proper matte surface. The color of the nickle plate is all wrong, and bears little resemblance to silver.

Many years ago I was lucky enough to run across a carriage house in Chesnut Hill PA the loft of which was filled with name-plates of various sorts, in different stages of completion, including Victor plates. The house had been owned by one Mr. F. O. Buffington, the late principal of the Philedelphia Name-Plate and Engraving Company, a contractor to the VTMC. Among the non-Victor plates were numerous nickle-plated examples, but all of the finished Victor plates were finished in either silver or copper. I still have a few unstamped plates, but my remaining items are entirely unfinished, bearing neither plating or black filler. Note that the early copper finished plates, as used on the Victor VI and the early Victrola machines did not have a painted background. The background was chemically blackened. I have not noticed a chemically blackened background on any of the silvered plates, though this would have been a simple matter to arrange.

[Garret]

No. The plates were coated with pure silver. This is a very simple process, which was comonly used on an industrial scale at the turn of the last century.

The plate is cleaned chemically and then scratch-brushed to raise a matte surface (I generally raise a matte surface in my soda blasting cabinet, but a brass-bristled brush or a bot of 400 girt sand paper will do the trick). One can then fill the background with black paint, touch up the high points with the 400 grit paper, and then gently rub the surface of the plate with solver chloride solution, depositing a thin layer of pure metallic silver on the work.

Here one may find a pretty good set of instructions for silvering a clock dial:

http://www.davewestclocks.co.uk/silveri ... _dials.htm

Here:

http://skeletonclocks.eu.com/the-english-worksop

A really excllent account form the Phila. museum here:

http://www.philamuseum.org/booklets/7_44_85_1.html

and another here; the NAWCC's "Resilvering for Newbies"

http://mb.nawcc.org/archive/index.php/t-7751.html

It is really pretty simple, inexpensive, and leaves the p;ate with the proper matte surface. The color of the nickle plate is all wrong, and bears little resemblance to silver.

Many years ago I was lucky enough to run across a carriage house in Chesnut Hill PA the loft of which was filled with name-plates of various sorts, in different stages of completion, including Victor plates. The house had been owned by one Mr. F. O. Buffington, the late principal of the Philedelphia Name-Plate and Engraving Company, a contractor to the VTMC. Among the non-Victor plates were numerous nickle-plated examples, but all of the finished Victor plates were finished in either silver or copper. I still have a few unstamped plates, but my remaining items are entirely unfinished, bearing neither plating or black filler. Note that the early copper finished plates, as used on the Victor VI and the early Victrola machines did not have a painted background. The background was chemically blackened. I have not noticed a chemically blackened background on any of the silvered plates, though this would have been a simple matter to arrange.

Bob,

It's so wonderful to be able to benefit from your advice again. So, starting from the original plate, how should I clean it? Scrub it with a brass bristle brush, or is there a chemical means by which I can get down to the brass base metal? What kind of black paint would you recommend? Is it safe to put lacquer over the final product to prevent oxidation?

[Uncle Vanya]

the plate MUST be lacquered, just as it was originally. Krylon matte works very well for this.

I'd suggest that you clean the plate by boiling it in an old aluminum pan in distilled water to which a couple of spoon-fulls of washing soda have been added. This will strip the old lacquer from the plate and reduce the silver sulphate corrosion to pure metallic silver. At this point you may find that the plate needs only light rubbing and re-lacquering. If not, glue a piece of 400 grit paper to a piece of plate glass, lubricate it with clean water and remove corrosion and silver from the high spots, leaving if possible the original asphalt black in the background. If the plate looks good, then just silver with the silver chloride powder. If the background is yet imperfect, any heavy black paint will suffice. just paint the plate and then wet-sand the balck off of the hight spots with the 400 grit paper glued to a sheet of plate glass.

[Zeppy]

I'm going to resurrect this thread to toss out a few more questions...were all the early data plates (excepting the ones with gold plated parts) silvered? I have a Victor M that was just down to brass by the time I got it...would it be safe to assume it was once silver.

And on a related questions, does anyone know what the early Vic 6, VTLA, VV-XII, XI were plated with (all the ones that have that orange huge to them)?