Edison C-19: Diagnostic Opinions?

[Cody K]

Over the holiday I somehow managed to buy myself a fairly nice Edison C19. It had been sitting on Craigslist for two months, and somebody needed to rescue it, so now I have my first Diamond Disc phonograph. Did I say first? Oh, that's worrisome -- it implies there'll be others, and with this behemoth, I'm really running out of real estate...

The machine is in fairly good condition. Someone did a Bad Thing to the finish at some time in the past, but the cabinet (mahogany) is presentable and in nice shape, and I can live with that for awhile. At the moment, I'm just trying to sort out a fluctuation in the motor speed that's puzzling me. I really need to get back to work on the Orthophonic and finish that before I get too involved with the Edison, but I'd like to get the Edison working passably for the time being.

What happens is this: It starts up quickly and normally, then after about five seconds it slows way down for about five seconds, and then gradually resumes normal speed, though with slight pitch variation through rest of the record. This pattern and timing happens the same way every time, whether the spring is fully or partially wound. I've cleaned and oiled the governor, which was pretty gummed-up, and let the weights "spin themselves into balance" according to the instructions in the booklet that David Clark copied and produced for the Forum (and hat's off to you, sir, for doing that!). That made some improvement.

I've removed a lot of extraneous grease from between the springs and the drive gear -- big chunks of it. I've added some oil the springs, wound and re-wound several times, letting the tension run down between times. This seems to have redistributed the grease in the springs some.

There's no ka-chunk of hardened grease as the springs unwind at all, as we've all heard so often with machines that have sat unused for a long while. The consistency of the grease I've removed from outside the springs is unlike the hardened grease I've seen before; it's much softer, but still fairly thick. Is Edison grease normally of a different consistency than that of other machines? (I know any kind of grease may have been used in any machine over the years, but hypothetically...)

I know that the obvious solution -- and what needs doing, and will be done -- is a thorough cleaning of the motor and the springs, but until I have a chance to do that I'd like to get this machine into a reasonable working order. It's coming along, but what puzzles me is the cause of the start/slow/resume pattern that happens exactly the same way at the beginning of acceleration. Since it doesn't seem to have to do with the governor at all, I'm assuming it has something to do with goopy grease in the springs? But I'm a total Edisonoob, and the gear system is somewhat different, so...any ideas?

Along with the machine came an extra diamond reproducer and an adapter for playing lateral discs. I don't expect to use the adapter, as I have enough regular phonos not to need to, but I'm curious about it. It looks like a Kent, as far as I can see, but it has no markings of any kind. It also has a chuck with room for two needles -- why is that? One for Pathé? Pics are below. Can anyone suggest who might have made it?

One thing that sold me on this machine was that it came with more than a hundred Diamond Discs, all but a few in VG+ to excellent condition, mostly all paper labels, including some 52000 series, and overall a nice selection of music with just a handful of out-and-out duds (I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen... etc.). I'm happy to have a nice DD, and I'm looking forward to putting some time and effort into it once the Credenza's finally done.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Kirkwood]

Do we think that Lateral attachment could be a Jewel reproducer?

Looks a lot like this one in the brochure:

[Cody K]

Kirkwood, thanks! We do! (Gosh, this forum and the folks on it are awesome!)

[celticguitar666]

Hi I had been watching that one myself but the ride to look at it always prevented me from going to check it out. I saw that it wasn't on CG today so I thought someone had finally snatched it it was a good buy just for the records! Good luck! At least it went to a good home. and yeah the finish looked a little shady form the pictures
Cheers
Dwight

[Cody K]

Heh -- Dwight, I think I must have been second in line for the one you got in Norton -- I replied to that ad less than two hours after it was posted. Just goes to show, when it comes to phonographs, there's enough for everybody!

Cheers --
Cody

[Victrolacollector]

Hi Sounds like a nice machine, but the motor should be cleaned well and re-lubricated this will give the machine more power than having to turn through all that old hardened grease. The mainsprings should actually be cleaned and relubed, but this is dangerous and is a job for a experienced repair person. Many people do mainspring cleanings and repairs, there is Wyatt's Musical, APSCO, Victrola Repair Service, Great Lakes Antique Phonograph and many others out there....

I would also say, have the reproducer rebuilt, fresh gaskets and make sure the stylus is good, sometimes they are good and sometimes they are not.

[Edisone]

Because it's happening however tightly the springs are wound, it seems to me that something might be hampering the swing of the horn. Starts out fine, then the horn assembly starts to drag heavily on the motor.

[Cody K]

Thank you! See, since I'm completely new to these machines, that's one of the things that I wouldn't guess. As you may know, Victrola and Columbia horns pride themselves on not moving around a whole lot, and that's what I've had until now. That, and the Actuelle, whose horn is invisible.

In trying to reason out the cause for there being a pattern to the fluctuations of speed, I've been thinking that perhaps one of the larger gears was being slowed at predictable points, but I couldn't imagine by what -- I've removed any real clumps of grease, and while the grease that remains is dirty and needs to be changed, I didn't think that could account for it. I've noticed in my recent reading a few mentions that horns might occasionally need to be adjusted, but I've had only a vague idea of why. It's because it has to swing completely freely -- much as a tone arm has to -- or else it gives the motor resistance, isn't it? I know that one of the manuals I've printed out has instructions for adjusting the horn. Off to look. Thank you so much -- I'm sure you're right!

(If I was 350 miles closer, I'd come up and help you get those phonographs out of the back of your car for this. As it stands, I owe you one...)

[mattrx]

I had a similar problem with my C-19. Turns out the previous owner had stored 2 Edison Diamond Disc catalogs in the horn area and the horn was hitting/binding on them as the record played.

Great deduction, I hope that this is the case for you, Cody, as it is a very simple fix!

[Cody K]

Matt, it can't be stuck lit-er-a-ture, because I pulled all that out earlier today -- long saturated with oil and crisp with fossilization -- fragile but relatively intact. I'm sure Edisone is right. I'll fix it tomorrow and report back. I'm very excited to get rid of the problem, because from what I've heard so far from it, this machine has a wonderful sound.

I've been sorting the records tonight, and I'm happy with the selection, so I'm eager to hear them; even moreso after listening to a few online while sorting. I think I'll be able to begin to explore them now, though a full restoration will still be ahead. It's so terrific to have a resource like this forum when in this kind of a quandary. Thank you all, especially Edisone.