Welding a broken motor

[Zeppy]

Does anyone know a trusted individual who can weld a broken motor. And by "broken motor" I mean the cast iron plate that everything is attached to is broken. As you can see, it's not the type of motor that one just says, "Oh well" and tosses it in the scap pile. And I rather not just carry it over the the local auto body shop with the hopes that they'll see it for the rare beauty it is, and give it the proper attention to detail it deserves.

[Ivor-Duncombe]

Good day, VV-XI,

What I would do (and have often done) is to get a piece of mild steel and cut it into bridging pieces which one glues and screws into strategic places on the broken casting whose broken edges and surrounding areas have been wire brushed and cleaned with lacquer thinners/gasoline/petrol and then acetone. Needless to say the bridging pieces must be made of good, clean, shiny and flat steel.

Design, cut and drill securing holes and bushing holes in the bridging plates first. Then glue the broken casting together (with Pratley's steel glue on the broken edges only. Align the casting pieces to obtain a perfect fit, clamp the workpiece, wipe off excess glue. When the glue has hardened mark and drill the casting for the first plate-securing holes which are 0.8 X the diameter of the securing screws to be used (i.e. 0,8 x 3mm = 2,4mm hole 2,5 mm OK). Wash the bridging plates in thinners and acetone as for the casting parts.

Drill out the marked bridging plate mounting holes and tap them to 3mm, for one plate at a time. Apply glue to the plate, casting and attaching screw holes before screwing the plate firmly into in place on the casting. Then repeat the process for attaching each remaining bridging plates, one plate at a time. Take care to bridge the casting over, areas stressed by winding the motor. If possible in stressed areas, fit 2 identical bridging plates, one on each side of the casting. You will require nuts and lock washers on the opposite side of the first-bridged side.

As you add more bridging plates (I haven't ever used more than 5) your motor frame will become stronger and stronger. By the time all of the glued joints have set you will be as sure as I am that your casting will not break again unless you drop it on concrete.

Clean with parafine/kerosene and reassemble your motor. This process has helped me to save motors that would never otherwise have worked again. Every now and then a usable unbroken casting does turn up and you can recall the old motor and fit an unrestored part - most satisfying. Keep the repaired one - it should last for many years. A gunsmith taught me this trick!

[JerryVan]

"Zeppy",

A very experienced welder could probably put that back together. However, you will most likely loose some degree of alignment from one half to the other. Since you don't show the other side of the motor, I'm not sure how much of an issue that is for you. It looks as if the governor bearing may reside on each side of the break which might make a problem. As Ivor suggests, it's sometimes best to make a "mechanical" repair, (versus welding).

With all that being said, have you contacted George Vollema? I'll bet he's got one of those castings lurking about.

[Ivor-Duncombe]

Hi, Jerry-van and Zeppy. Yes its amazing what an expoert can do with an argon-arc welder. The problem is to find someone who has one. They may be ia bit cheaper these days, but in my day most argon arc welding machines were owned by businesses and institutions - as were the welding artisans! Then one was always on the prowl for private jobs, which I didn't mind asking for at all if the artisan at work had his own welder at home.

A replacement part always just feels better somehow. Gramophones are pretty thin on the ground here and some makes are very scarce. So we've had to learn to improvise. If you have to do the bridging plate trick, and you do it well, you won't be disappointed. I've done a few HMV No.32 motors too - very successfully.

I hope that you get the part that you want. it looks vaguely familiar. Can you show me a picture of the 2 pieces fitted together? I have quite a few lonely and unusual cast iron frames that I'd love to populate, but I'll never have enough time (or parts)to do them all.

Regards,
Owen

[OrthoSean]

It looks vaguely familiar.

It looks like a VTLA / Early XVI / Victor VI motor to me.

Sean

[Zeppy]

It looks vaguely familiar.

It looks like a VTLA / Early XVI / Victor VI motor to me.

Sean

You would be correct. And a slightly earlier version than the 'more common' version....It takes the notched winding key rather than threaded...and going into a Victor VI...so all the more reason I want to get it fixed (or replace the cast plate).

[Ivor-Duncombe]

Hey guys! You have now jogged my memory! Amongst my unfinished/unkowm cast iron motor frames (Which I long to restore, but for lack of parts I can't, are:

1 X single spring motor frame with a "V" shaped cutout in it,
1 X double spring motor frame with a "V" shaped cutout in it,http://forum.talkingmachine.info/postin ... =7&t=15691#
1 X triple spring motor frame with a "V" shaped cutout in it,

Most of the parts I have for them are interchangeable, but not all of them. These I have always believed came from Zonophone machines, but of course the could also be from Victors or HMVs. So how many springs does your broken Victor motor frame hold? Perhaps we could organise a swop-out for some of the parts I need to restore 1 or 2 of the 3 motor frames that I have?

[cleveland1996]

Zeppy, just get the right person to do the job..probably yourself. i too had a Victor V motor frame that broke and i had someone that I thought was a good welder to repair it. It was the worst job I have ever seen in my life. I am not a welder, but I could have done better. Thanks to George who saved me with a relacement.

Joe

[yd328]

Welding cast is a little tricky, you would have to find someone that has done cast. They will also probapbly need to make a jig to hold it to keep it in alignment during the welding process.

Gary

[Zeppy]

Hey guys! You have now jogged my memory! Amongst my unfinished/unkowm cast iron motor frames (Which I long to restore, but for lack of parts I can't, are:

1 X single spring motor frame with a "V" shaped cutout in it,
1 X double spring motor frame with a "V" shaped cutout in it,http://forum.talkingmachine.info/postin ... =7&t=15691#
1 X triple spring motor frame with a "V" shaped cutout in it,

Most of the parts I have for them are interchangeable, but not all of them. These I have always believed came from Zonophone machines, but of course the could also be from Victors or HMVs. So how many springs does your broken Victor motor frame hold? Perhaps we could organise a swop-out for some of the parts I need to restore 1 or 2 of the 3 motor frames that I have?

Attahced are the auction photos of the motor before its unfortunate run in. As you can see it's the early Victor 3 spring form the Victor V and VI. I think the cast plate was pretty consistent up through the L-Door XVI.


I do have a few odd parts of motors. I believe a have a few 2 spring motors that are mostly complete, as well as a 4 spring I recall is complete, but has busted springs. Not sure exactly of what vintage the 2 spring motors are (keep saying I'm going to drop them on ebay, and never get around to it), and have some other odds and ends too, so if you have the right spare, we could work something out.